Knowledge Is King?

point taken......closed...

Well then,

I am no expert nor do I hold myself out as one. I am sure of few things. But take a butter knife that has a point on it. It will cut though warm butter only, stab the point into steel it will leave a mark even if the metal struck is hardened..

I coin needs tons of pressure too make a coin. In the Morgan dollars the area that is being struck is large, and needs the force. A smaller area of mass creates a more focalized impact, and more force.

As far as some type of peeing match I did not step into this to prove anything. I know I do not know it all... or even 1% All I was doing was stating and opinion. As far as proof of penetration force needed on a round large object too a smaller sharper idem. I have used hardened center punches some with points and some small round ends. If I hit the same type of hardened steel with both punches using the same force the pointed center punch will leave a bigger or more defined mark.

In the opinion I was stating was that a die hitting sideways with less area making contact would create greater pressure, or more force.

A simple visual is... strike a closed car window under water with your fist, it will do nothing. Strike it with a screwdriver and it shatters. A smaller localized point of pressure

I guess I am in some clik I did not know about. I will refrain from entering opinion on your posts in the future

Gene ,
The theory of the dropped die came out of LVA own mouth when I was over his home. So I am sure of 2 things again. 1) He has spent more time in the US mints looking at and reading over the processes of the Mint's then you and I. And 2) is you do not need 120 tons to make a small imprint on a die. If the area is small that is hitting to other die there is a force multiplier, with both dies being hardened one will give, the depth of the imprint is in reality vary small on many of the "clashes"

The 1878 CC impression is so light that it is hard to take photo of it if the angle is not right.

Here is a photo of the letter from LVA.

In my trade working upside down and backwards is a normal thing. so working on the negative side of what the die really looks like and its produced form the positive, is not hard to understand or relate to....I don't claim to know the exact reason for those abnormalities, but as a some what newbie to VM it really doesn't matter, for if the fact could be proved beyond the shadow of doubt.. we would not be exploring this idea....but that's ok.. This conversation is not about you me or anybody else, Brainstorming is the collective abillity for us to combine our ideas, weather we agree or not....I just happen to disagree on the general principle, for all examples of dentil impressions....sure there can be examples like you have shown, but they don't cover the all the examples of dentil impressions...or truely explain it as founded before....

That is what I said when you entered the notion on page 7.5. What the meaning of that is, I know that you did not come up with the idea, because I have heard it before. Your point about the punch and butter knife is well taken, however, we aren't talking about those items here. My words were not pointed at you at all. You were merely the messenger. I balk at the originator of the idea, (and I don't care who that originator was , or how highly he/she may be regarded by you or anyone else).

The dropped die.....dropped from what distance on to what?

Holding over head and dropping it straight onto the points of a hard metal floor?
Holding it a distance of 3 or 4 inches above the lower die as would be necessary to secure to the press?

Then the thing about banging the dies together, the photo that we were using here, clearly shows a uniform repetitive motion at close interval that would be a very impressive feat for any human being to duplicate.

Ideas and notions are the substance of what we have become over the course of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. They are good things. When a notion can be too easily debunked, it is absurd to continue holding it as truth, no matter who said it. No man walks on water, and no man is omniscient, I think for myself and hold no man's words at a higher level than my own thought on a subject to which I have invested thought.

What that means, (and let me be clear on this) is that 'I' (not Gene), say it is rubbish, no matter 'who' claims it as fact.

As for the supporting picture that you provided, I see a mark between a couple of letters, but nothing that would cause me to think that it is a denticle impression. Surely there must be a bigger photo showing more marks and the spacing? Whether there is or not, doesn't really matter, I would not accept any such notion as being even the slightest bit plausible without some sort of logical substantiation beyond what little has been said and shown.

Russ, I can very honestly say that I have never been so happy to see anyone post as I am right now. I was so afraid that you would be enraged at my words, that I had thought that I would never post here again. You are certainly much more of a man about things than I am, and I do mean that very sincerely.

I would like to drop this whole subject, if that is alright, and move on to a topic that I do not have such hard prior feelings about.

As for the "number of reprimands, firings, terminations, of all production US mint employees from the P,S,CC,and O mints from 1878 thought 1904.", I may well be able to assist you in that matter, as I have a friend who researches that sort of stuff from the original documents themselves.
Later Buddy,
L.

Hey Zee, way to go!!





That's the first time I've ever posted dancing fruit on here. Really weird, but you asked for it.

And mods, please feel free to lower my post count by one to account for this meaningless post.

Thanks very much for the fruit Steve. I really can't express in words just how much that actually means to me. I could watch them for hours. I think that the banana is my favorite. I like the way that he moon walks and Charlestons.

In response to your question; Yes, a very plausible explanation (in my opinion) was given for those marks.