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 Replies: 531 / Views: 78,431 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
I went to my coin dealer and asked him if he had any 32s. He pulled out a big box of old rolls (by year) and found 4 rolls of 1932s. Almost all of the coins were in similar shape. I'd call them F-15 average. However, I don't know if these had been previously sorted by grade, or if these have been in the rollers since 1945. If these were unbiased, statistically speaking, (which obviously they aren't because they were all in the same shape) then I would say the average grade is F-15. I guess you could go through ebay listings and look at what's on there in grades below AU (i.e. coins that were never "collected"), should give you a feel of what average is. |
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Valued Member
 Canada
402 Posts |
Thanks to all  I know that : - 2500 coins of 5 cents 1925 are certified - 1300 coins of 5 cents 1926 Far 6 are certified - 600 coins of 25 cents 1936 Dot are certified - 4 coins of 5 cents 1932 Far 2 are certified. I see today, on ebay : - 64 coins of 5 cents 1925 - 40 coins of 5 cents 1926 Far 6 - 12 coins of 25 cents 1936 Dot - 0 coin of 5 cents 1932 Far 2. But, I don't know the % of survival, in 2012, for the 5 cents ( 1922-1936 ), except for 1925 and 1926 Far 6. |
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Valued Member
Canada
402 Posts |
SPP-Ottawa,
The " Start Price " of $ 250.00 indicate me that, for the auctioneer, this coin ( 5 cents 1932 Far 2 ) is rarest, for a VG-10, than a coin of 5 cents 1926 Far 6, same grade.
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
The " Start Price " of $ 250.00 indicate me that, for the auctioneer, this coin ( 5 cents 1932 Far 2 ) is rarest... Your logic is flawed. Your own statistics are a better indicator of scarcity, than an auctioneer's opinion on a variety that is definitely not their field of expertise. You and I both probably know Louis Chevrier of Lower Canada Auctions (LCA). You should know, that the consigner sets the reserve price, not the auctioneer. Louis is a nice guy, and probably agreed to "try it out", but that coin will not sell for that price. If it does, then I feel sorry for the buyer, as that person will never get a return on their investment. You can find this variety, in VG to F grades in unsearched circulated rolls. I know several collectors here in Ottawa who have found them, one collector I know has four of them. At a 1:100 scale of rarity (which you have shown), those are pretty good odds of finding 1 Far 2 every 3-4 rolls searched. This auction listing mirrors previous auctions of LCA, whereby someone tried to consign and auction a variety for an outrageous price. The 1982 Constitution dollar graded MS-64 with the 'small jewels' is an example that comes to mind. Heritage or Moore or Bell auctions would never even allow a listing like that, with such a high reserve price. In my opinion, that auction is not designed to sell that coin, as it would be if someone truly wanted to unload a collection a coins - it is more of a means to bring attention to the variety (which is still a good thing). Like the RCNA auctions of 2008 and 2009, if one really wants to test the waters with a variety, you start the reserve price at $1, and let it go to the open market. That is how the 2006 magnetic (no P, no RCM logo) started, with a $400 price realized at the 2008 RCNA auction (for a raw coin). In 2009, a VG example of a 1929 1-cent High 9 was auctioned off for $30 in VG-10 grade, which somewhat set the pricing for that variety. If you have an extra example of this variety, put it in a CCCS holder and give it to Louis to auction off at the next Nuphilex, with a $10 reserve (to cover your grading costs). Then, you will get a good idea of realistic demand and value for this variety.... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
@za75: But the auction start price is meaningless. The start price was probably demanded by the consigner. Delusional prices abound everywhere. What does it mean if it doesn't sell?
To get the same prices as a 1926 far, the 1932 far needs to:
* Be shown to be as scarce
* Get the same following among collectors (1926 far is EXTREMELY famous, the 1932 far is relatively almost completely unknown)
I'd say there is a good shot that both are result of a single die. The question remains how many items those dies produced.
Despite being apparent that 192 and 193 matrices were produced, generally the last digit placement appears very accurate in the George V series.
Did they use something to guide that accuracy?
Why did it fail in these two cases?
The answer to the latter could shed some light on the relative numbers. But, it is probably hopeless now to find an answer.
Edited by dialog_gvf
08/16/2012 1:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
Quote:
- 1300 coins of 5 cents 1926 Far 6 are certified
- 4 coins of 5 cents 1932 Far 2 are certified.
The 1926 far has been known since 1926 or soon after. The 1932 far has been know for what, 2 years? Relative scarcity of the full population implies relative scarcity of the certification. It is a logic error to reverse the implication. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
The logic is no doubt flawed. Rather than debating the price/value though, let's see how this coin does in auction. I suspect it won't sell. If it does, I know mine will be up in the next auction!
If you own a few of these, it might be wise to buy this one, it could potentially set the benchmark for pricing.
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Valued Member
Canada
402 Posts |
@ SPP-Ottawa, I know Louis Chevrier ( CCCS and auctioneer of Lower Canada Auctions ) from more than 20 years ago and we are too members of ANPB and RCNA. I speak him, in the last hour, and he confirm my opinion on the fact that the 5 cents 1932 Far 2 is much more rare than the 5 cents 1926 Far 6. For him the price of $ 250.00 is realistic. We will see, in the next years, if the rarity of this variety will be corroborated. I wish to all collectors to find one coin of this variety in unsearched circulated rolls. |
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Valued Member
Canada
402 Posts |
@ SPP-Ottawa, You say : "....but that coin will not sell for that price. If it does, then I feel sorry for the buyer, as the person will never get a return on their investment." I am surprised with your commentary, becauce I see, from morning to night, several collectors to raise collection's coins, from MRC. I am also worried about their investment  Why not, for a rare variety  To be a little touched occasionally is not so bad for the health |
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
I say that for several reasons.
1. the coin is graded VG-10. Perfect grade for picking one out of a dealer's George V 5-cent junk bin. If that auction coin was EF or AU, then I would think that price is fair, considering we really don't know anything about that variety, other than your statistics. That auction coin is a perfect "cherry-picker's grade"...
2. because 1932 rolls are easy to find (about $12 to $20 per roll) and the odds of find one coin per 3-4 rolls is pretty good (1:100 based on your statistics), and it will be the same grade (VG-F). So, one can spend $30 to $50 buying rolls, or spend $250 in that auction. Which would you buy?
3. you compare this coin to the 1926 Far 6. Have you ever tried to buy a roll of 1926 5-cent coins? Overall, the mintage is lower for 1926, and you will not find a 1926 roll anywhere for less than $125, and chances are, it does not have a Far 6. I can still buy a 1932 roll for $12, and chances are, I have a better than 30% chance of finding a Far 2.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
08/17/2012 08:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
SPP - I agree with most of what you're saying. However, what is the ratio of 1926 Nears to Fars? I suspect it's lower than 100:1 (maybe not by much). Also, if you buy a roll of 1926s, the 1926 Nears are still worth something, so if you somehow found unsearched rolls, you wouldn't just be paying for the chance of finding a 26 far.
As of right now, when you buy a roll of 1932 Nickels, you are paying for just that, a roll of old nickels. If this variety ever becomes valuable, then you will be paying for a roll of 1932 Nears (worth 12-20 bucks) and the chance of finding a 1932 Far (and if the coin is worth $100, that would add a $40 premium at 1/100 odds), so an unsearched roll could suddenly be worth $50 - $60.
And to further your point in #2, you could spend $30 - $50 buying rolls, and still sell the other 99% of the coins for about what you paid for them, so the cost of acquiring a 1932 far (today) is virtually nothing, so long as you can find rolls of 1932s.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
I should add though that the cost of a box of 2012 Pennies is only $25 if you "search" for them at banks, whereas they sell for $100 on ebay. So sadly, some people might prefer to pay big bucks for a coin that could be obtained cheaper if it saves them time. |
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Valued Member
Canada
402 Posts |
SPP-Ottawa, Maybe you know that, for a rare coin, the grade is a secondary factor when a collector wish to obtain a coin : as a fact, the coin on this auction was sold. Buy, buy and buy rolls of 5 cents 1932 And please, give us your data  Surely, that the contributings, like yours, to this search, will bring a great step about this coin, and collectors will know much more about this variety. We have nice photos of this variety, and more and more collectors have a real interest for this coin : for the future, the time is allied with us  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
686 Posts |
SPP - congrats on winning this coin :P
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Heh - an online only auction, and it sold to the floor? There was no "floor" with this auction. I wonder if it actually sold... or if that simply means "to the book".
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
08/17/2012 11:36 am
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Posted 08/15/2012 9:13 pm
