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 Replies: 19 / Views: 3,688 |
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Valued Member
United States
355 Posts |
Well I'm still learning and this may be a dumb question, but here goes. So Proofs, does each mint make proof sets? I've seen coins for sale that are labeled P mint Proof. I guess I thought the S mint was were all proof coins were minted, but that's prolly just a newbie assumption.
I'm collecting quarters, with that being the case to have a complete set from a specific year would that include proofs plus regular strikes from each mint?
I'm gonna dig through the forum to find older posts, but wanted to ask as well. Not sure if I'm understanding or not.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
So Proofs, does each mint make proof sets? Since 1968, proofs for all circulating designs have been minted at San Francisco. The one exception is the 1999P SBA proof which is more of an accidental issue than anything else. Proofs for non-circulating designs(commems and Eagles) have been minted at Philly but there will not be any more than one mintmark for any year. For quarters, there are a few options for a set. A basic set would consist of P&D business strike coins. A mid-level set would have the P&D business strikes in addition to clad S-mint proofs. A high end set would consist of the P&D business strikes, clad proofs, silver proofs, and P&D satin finish quarters from Mint Sets. The satin finish coins are made specifically for collectors just like proofs but they do not receive as much extra treatment as the proofs. They are meant to be mid-quality collector coins of a better quality than the regular business strikes and have been included in Mint Sets since 2005. Prior to that, business strike coins were used in the Mint Sets. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7184 Posts |
Currently the United States has three mints that produce proof coins. San Francisco "S" Philadelphia "P" (or no mint mark for pre 1968 coins) and West Point "W". West point mostly produces gold proofs. San Francisco produces proof sets and some commemorative. Philadelphia produces commemorative and was the proof set producer prior to 1968. All three mints have produced Silver American Eagles. |
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Valued Member
 United States
355 Posts |
So if I'm looking for just business strikes on ebay, let's say, do I just look for quarters that don't have a description of proof or s clad...just something like washingto quarter BU? Is there a way to differentiate between the types. Also is there a good online refference the lays out what types were minted in what years? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7184 Posts |
PCGS has an on line price guide that separates the proofs from regular business strikes. your question about quarters and an "s" mint mark is correct for "s" strikes after 1968, they are all proofs and the mint mark is on the observe of the coins. There are also "s" mint quarters from 1932-1953 that are not proof with the mint mark on the reverse.
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Valued Member
United States
79 Posts |
Also, there are business strikes from San Francisco for the 1976 Bicentennial set. I also believe that they have made some business strike cents since 1968, but I don't know for which years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
659 Posts |
san fransisco made business strikes for cents 1968 through 1974 and nickels 1968 through 1970.
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Valued Member
United States
355 Posts |
SO here's where I'm getting confused....I see a lot of pre 68 quarters that are labeled on ebay as P proofs. Did the P mint produce proofs prior to 68? Are these proofs? If so how do you tell a difference between these proofs and a BU example of a pre 68 business strike coin from the P mint. Here is an example search http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R...l-Categories |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1817 Posts |
All proofs prior to 1965 were made in Philadelphia and carry no mintmark. There was no proofs issued in 1965-67, but Special Mint sets (SMS). Starting in 1968, San Francisco makes all of the proofs found in the annual sets, both clad and silver from 1992 onwards. Of the P-mint proofs that you are discussing, they occur in two distinct periods, 1936-1942 and 1950-1964. They are easily distinguished from a Philadelphia business strike by having squared off rims, a sharply defined strike, and if untoned white, deeply mirrored fields AND devices. This is true of all years except for '36, some proof coins received a satin finish instead of a brilliant proof finish. Only the first few dozen coins of a new die would issue proofs with frosted devices, but generally proofs of this era are of the brilliant uncameoed variety.
And in the case of the quarters, the business strikes had reverse A throughout, while the proofs had reverse B from 1937, with slight differences of detail between each. Reverse B was used for some Philadelphia business strike quarters 1956-64, but they are generally scarce and hard to find, and make for a nice subset. When found uncirculated, they have the finish of a brilliant proof, but are either poorly struck or lack the detail of true proofs.
Edited by Bizybackson
05/05/2011 10:31 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Other than a few incredibly rare branch mint proofs, Philadelphia minted all proof coins prior to 1964(no proofs minted at all 1965-67). Currently, the Mint strives to mint DCAM proofs but that was not the case back then. The modern Mint uses grit blasters and diamond paste polishing to give the dies that appearance. The old method of die prep involved chemical pickling followed by a polishing. The first few strikes from fresh dies could produce DCAM and CAM coins but the frosted areas would quickly wear away which resulted in the majority of proofs having a brilliant finish. Older cameo proofs are highly sought after and can be quite valuable.
The primary indicators of a pre-1965 proof would be brilliant mirror-like surfaces, extremely strong details, and sharp squared rims.
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Valued Member
United States
355 Posts |
Bizybackson and biokemist6 - thanks for the info and as usual it has created more questions for me. What is meant by reverse A and reverse B. And Another question is if 36 was the beginning of the first proof period for quarters does that mean that from 1932-1935 there were no proofs made, which collection wise means I would only be searching for (in my case) circulated and BU examples from all mints?
I can tell for sure this is gonna be fun, all this detail about 1 little coin...who knew?!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
No proofs were minted at all between 1917 and 1935. They were minted again from 1936-1942 with an extended pause for WWII and then production resumed again in 1950. You probably do not want to worry about the 1936-42 proofs right now, mintages were between 4k and 22k so they can be quite pricy. The B reverse for Washington quarters was the normal reverse for silver Washington proofs while the A reverse was the normal silver business strike reverse. From 1956-1964, some of the B reverse dies were used for business strikes- the B rev is found exclusively on Philly quarters. The primary pickup point(PUP) is the ES of STATES- the letters are connected on the A reverse and there is separation between them on the B reverse. The reverse hub design was changed again in 1965 which created the C reverse. Some 1964Ds will also have the C reverse, PUP is a central line through each tail feather. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
The proof situation is surprisingly complicated. Just when you think you have a handle on it there is an exception! Quote:
All proofs prior to 1965 were made in Philadelphia and carry no mintmark. The 1942 Jefferson nickel proofs were made in normal copper-nickel alloy and the copper-silver-manganese wartime alloy. The wartime alloy proof carries a large P mintmark above the dome of Monticello on the reverse. One other oddball coin exists: the 1984 Olympic commemorative $10 gold piece. These were issued in proof format with P, S, W, and D (Denver) mintmarks. I added one of these to my collection, just because of the oddity of a Denver proof coin. I think there were some unofficial proofs made when the Denver mint opened in 1906. The $10 Olympic coin is otherwise the only Denver proof available to collectors. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
D'oh! I completely forgot about the 1942 proof silver, thinking there was only the standard alloy. I intentionally disregarded commemoratives and bullion since their mintmarks tend to be much more random than proofs for circulating designs.
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Valued Member
United States
355 Posts |
I knew there'd be a reason I'd love this hobby. This info is absolutely fascinating to me. So one more question (my grandpa used to call me the 20 question kid hehe), if I were to ever find myself in the position of trying to determine if a reverse B from the 56-64 range is a proof or a business strike, is the only tell tail sign the deep mirror finish and the sharp details on the rim and devices? It seems to me on a BU example that may be hard to do. Love the info guys...keep it comin. If you had to give me 1 or two book suggestions on the Washington quarters, what would they be? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6381 Posts |
Phankins11, that is an excellent question and the answer is, you sometimes can't. A BU coin should have a satiny, brilliant luster in the fields while a proof should be more mirror-like. There is however a range of surface qualities for BU and Proof and there seems to be some overlap. I see many 1956-1964 silver quarters at coin shows that are labeled BU which I think are actually proofs.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 3,688 |
Posted 04/25/2011 6:05 pm
