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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,483 |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Numerology is the idea that numbers control our lives, and that, for example, changing your name to one whose letters "add-up" differently can change your life. I'm not going to bore you with it or some advanced theory, but let's see if a little numerical "common cents" will predict the future of PM. Let's forget who's buying, selling, and why for the moment. As much as possible, let's ignore the product, we're looking at something deeper than that. PMWhite. Current numbers say 44. Recently it was 50, then dropped into the 30s. Seers have crystal balls, but pawnbrokers have brass balls.  says you maximize your return at 48-49. But it's gone 50 before! Forget 31 years ago, half of you weren't even born then. Round numbers are magic. No matter how well we know that $9.99 and $10.00 are essentially the same price, the people who get the big dollars for having smart brains tell us to price things at $9.99. The same magic works with selling. "When it gets to fifty, I'll sell." Nice round number, easy to remember and calculate. Might as well say "When it hits $50, I'll get in line with the 90% of other sellers who are considering selling for under $100, if I remember." So when do you sell? Before everyone else does. If you have steel nerves, 49.5. If you're more conservative, 48.5. You give up 1-3%, but even if you bought at 44, you still make 10.2-12.5%. CDs won't do that! When do you buy? When it gets near 30 again. A few % higher, not exactly. You'll see that "natural" range several more times in your life. PMYellow. Just passed 1900 and seems to be holding, making new record highs on an almost daily basis. The market has never been like this before. Between you, me and the wall: SELLIt's hard to sell when you're looking at higher prices daily. It's even harder when buyer interest is gone. Remember that magic number 50? Numbers don't get much rounder than 2000. People who bought at 200 will sell at 2000. Ditto those who bought at 1000, 1500, and 1900. If you think it's gonna hit 2000 and stay there while you gather your goodies, get in line behind the paperboy. Most likely, it will go over 2000 for less than a day, then drop as low as 1200, then bounce back to 1500 and struggle for months to get to 2000 again. But what about government buying, new buyers, 24-hour printing, and all the other reasons? That's long-term, and in the long term, we're all dead. Here's another secret. It won't stay over 2000, because there's no good reason for it to be there in the first place. In order to maintain a record high, you need a reason. The value of the dollar dropping 10% doesn't justify a 1000% price increase. We're looking at numbers now. Not digging costs, weekly sales, etc. Raw numbers and the emotions they cause. If you buy now, you might make 5%, from 1900-2000. If it bottoms out to 1200, you lose 37%, seven times the potential gain. Long-term? 2500, 3000, even 5000, easy. Do you want in at 2000, or 1200? I don't gamble with 7-1 odds against me. PMGrey For roughly the last 40 years, this PM has sold for more than PMYellow. There are times it is slightly less, but its normal condition is slightly higher to much higher. This presents a different numbers game: If you see yellow priced significantly higher than grey (and we're getting close), sell yellow and buy an equal amount of grey. Reverse the trade when their prices resume their traditional positions.
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
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Valued Member
Ireland
131 Posts |
Sorry but I simply don't see PMYellow retracing to 1200 then rebounding to 1500 and struggling for months to make it back toward 2000.
a) In the current economic climate I really can't see any way it could drop that far without some serious changes to the fundamentals behind the bull run. b) Should it retrace that far then I would expect any rebound to go to a max of 1350-1400. c) for both a) and b) to have occurred the fundamentals would have seriously changed in which case it won't have a prayer of approaching 2000 again.
Each to their own viewpoint though, you're perfectly entitled to yours and it's always good to look at both sides of the coin as it were.
Norm
Edited by Spikey Norman 08/23/2011 3:57 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I totally buy the even number thing. In a restaurant, I prefer a menu which has the dish listed at 14 dollars for example, instead of $13.99. Why waste the worlds time with the penny less, like we are all not smart enough to know there is basically no difference short of one stinkin penny in that transaction.... I put 50 oz. of silver up at 3200 starting bid expecting no bids of course, an buy it now 3575, with BIN bonus a 4 oz. round bringing total to 54 with buy it now only, and it had 105 views an 7 watchers, but no bids as I figured. I was gonna go all gold if I could have gotten that much, obviously way over priced. An after it ended, a fellow offered me 2500 for the base 50 oz. and said that was fair offer at 50 an oz.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/15064751799....m1562.l2649I had about 2200 in 45 oz. as 5 more of it was a gift from my mother. So, after fees, would barely have made anything, so needless to say I past, as I would prefer to keep it, and stay in silver, then let it go for that price so I past on what I thought was a fair offer. Much of the silver in the lot in question, I think would have brought much more than 50 each sold solo as of the near 44 an oz. of last night, but alas timing is everything, and silver dropped today so good chance that fellow feels today he may have dodged a bullet.... I could have payed 500 an got myself paid totally up to zero on all bills an debt, and had about enough left to get 1 oz. of gold in 4 quarter oz. rounds was the plan, but alas I feel I made the right choice staying in silver. I did move 22 oz. for a wee bit more than I had in it bringing from 76 oz. down to 54, but I will add it back an then some. And I also have 45 grams of gold, so I think that is a decent small diversified collection of G @ S.... What do you think guys bad move or not to have passed on the sale? An maybe now I will hold off to fifty as you mentioned above Fred and beyond if it keeps climbing. And then buy back in when it falls back to 30 or something or go all gold then....
Edited by Silverhawk74 08/23/2011 4:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: What do you think guys bad move or not to have passed on the sale? An maybe now I will hold off to fifty as you mentioned above Fred and beyond if it keeps climbing. And then buy back in when it falls back to 30 or something or go all gold then.... Hard to say, Hawk. I guess that it would depend upon your reasons for owning silver. If you are buying and selling regularly in the hopes of selling higher, buying lower, and increasing your total holdings, then, yes, you should have sold at $50 an oz. If you are like me and are building a hoard for that infamous SHTF scenario of for protecting your assets from inflation, then NO SALE! Over the intermediate term, I can easily see silver moving back and forth between about $30 and $50 an oz. No one can say whether or not this will actually happen but it looks good for it to me. Over the long term, silver should be a great place to hold some wealth where inflation can't melt it away. The real problem seems to be more in the short term. I am more interested in adding to my hoard than selling any of it, so I will continue to buy on any and all price pull-backs. We've recently seen some pretty solid support for silver prices in the $34-35 area. My thought is that the new price floor for silver is in the $30-35 area. I would not hesitate to buy silver at any price below about $38 an oz. If I were to be interested in selling, then I agree with Fredd that a $48-50 price would be pretty attractive. Not that I would be turning my back on silver, only that I would be looking to sell there and then buy it back at a lower price later on. This could be a pretty good way of picking up additional ounces.
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Rest in Peace
 United States
9104 Posts |
hawk-
If you run a similar listing, here's a few easy changes:
Break it down to a bulleted list, perhaps with some items highlighted by bolding.
Add space between items of type.
Bump the type size up a point or two for old farts.
Just like we have certain reactions to numbers and colors, people look at a big block of type and just skip over it. You've got some neat items, but the presentation says "50 ounce pile of silver", not "interesting collection of unusual silver coins" (except ones from Austalia).
BTW, country's-possessive, countries-plural.
Just using your example, lots of sellers could gain from the advice.
Edited by biggfredd 08/26/2011 08:29 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
When my silver collection got "out of hand" (said the missus), my wife made me start selling on ebay. We now run a pretty nifty side business buying and selling silver + a bit of gold. ebay's fees really are killer though. Coupled with PayPal, the fees are close to 15%, which means that I made all of $2/oz on the roll of Silver maple leafs I bought when spot was $35 and sold when spot was $46. We eventually moved to commemorative coins and bullion with significant numismatic value to be able to eke out ~15% return on sales. Where we make the most is selling privately to buyers that find us through ebay but buy in person or off ebay. We discount heavily so the most of the time end up making less than on ebay but these buyers become regulars and then friends. One thing I'm noticing when selling though, is that sales peak when prices peak, and drop off significantly when prices correct. All the better for small time sellers like us but it makes no sense. Every knows to buy the dip but the truth is few do
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Ed, I am in it for the long haul like you for sure, but have been kicking around the idea of adding as much gold as possible before it passes 2 grand, as I just think gold is more stable. But after I feel I have enough gold for a solid foundation start if you will, then I will convert back strictly to adding silver, as it is still way in my buying window at 40 an some change.... "perhaps with some items highlighted by bolding." Great point Fredd, I never figured the bad eyesight thing. And the long winded blah blah, I fell you easy to skip it. But a lot of pieces, so I figured the info was key, an don't want any unhappy bidders later, so I try an describe to the best of my ability.... I re-listed it, and change the title as you suggest, an lowered price to buy it now 3300, an 3000 starting bid. If someone wants to invest that much for 50 oz. for the nicer stuff, then I will add two more quarter oz. gold coins to get me to around an even 2 oz. and put whats left back into silver bars, or ASE's. I saw a roll of 25 prospectors the other day, that broke down to like 42 bucks a coin, so perhaps something like that, but preferably closer to 40 a coin, or way less if silver pulls back more to 30, which no telling what may happen next week, with all the world economic turmoil, and the storm situation.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Engelhard-1...em1e6663c91aI do think the job report release, just re-insures the real problems the US faces in the days to come, an has sent G & S back on their climb up it seems, for now anyway and we will see how it all closes out tom going into the weekend....
Edited by Silverhawk74 08/26/2011 01:50 am
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Valued Member
United States
302 Posts |
Quote: Just using your example, lot's of sellers could gain from the advice. Fred, that should be lots, not lot's. Lots is plural and lot's is possessive.
BTW, the only reason I point this out is because that particular post was about various aspects of getting things right.
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Rest in Peace
 United States
9104 Posts |
Yes, dear. One rule of the Interwebs is that anyone who nitpicks about grammar or punctuation will invariably make a similar mistake in his comments.
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New Member
United States
46 Posts |
I resend thad! Two things I have learned about business on ebay: 1. Check you're sbellin an wride in glear sendenses that can easy understood by peoples. 2. Put the word STUNNING, HUGE, BARGAIN or INCREDIBLE in the listing and watch some moron jump on it as if it was the last item on this planet. Right now just putting words like "Silverware" should land you in the $50/$60/ Oz range, even if only selling Barbies glitter dress. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: Ed, I am in it for the long haul like you for sure, but have been kicking around the idea of adding as much gold as possible before it passes 2 grand, as I just think gold is more stable. But after I feel I have enough gold for a solid foundation start if you will, then I will convert back strictly to adding silver, as it is still way in my buying window at 40 an some change.... Well, I don't have the same strategy as you but no one says we have to.  I like the fact that you HAVE a strategy and are sticking with it. That is an important aspect of collecting. Not that we can't adjust our strategies from time to time but over-thinking and over-tinkering are often less than helpful. Now... THE question to ask... Did you get any gold when it dipped into the $1730s?  Truth to tell, Hawk, I was looking at buying a tube of 40 1/4 oz. Krugs but did not place the order. Thought that I would wait until after the Bernanke speech today. So much for that plan! 
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Rest in Peace
United States
4849 Posts |
Interesting thing to note about ebay fees. Many folks complain about them being high, and that is true to a point. However, the percentage gradually decreases the more expensive the item. $10,000 worth of coins at auction would only be charged a combined 3.5% in fees on ebay/paypal combined....not really bad imo!
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Rest in Peace
 United States
9104 Posts |
Quote: $10,000 worth of coins at auction would only be charged a combined 3.5% in fees on ebay/paypal combined....not really bad imo! I show 9% FVF alone. What am I overlooking?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
Using ebay.com's fees calculator, a coin and paper money auction with end price at $10,000 would be charged ~$250. PayPal charges 2.9% + (bit less if you are a premium business member with 100,000+ annual sales) That comes to more than $500 in fees for $10,000 of coin (not coinS), roughly 5%. So yes, it's not too high. But, if you're selling multiple $100 or less coins like the rest of us then the percentage paid to fees rises to 12+%
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Replies: 14 / Views: 1,483 |
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