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Update #4 - Completed Circulated Classic Silver Commemorative Type Set

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CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
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commems's Avatar
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12286 Posts
 Posted 12/13/2014  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats on the latest downgrade!

Is this your second downgrade on the Roanoke? I know that at least one past coin in your set was graded XF-45, but I can't remember if this piece was the replacement for the XF coin or if there was another in between.

Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 12/13/2014  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ commems - downgrades are a forever opportunity in pursuit of this rare set of coins.

The XF45 Roanoke Island was downgraded to a VF25 example - which remained in the set for a few years ... and now downgraded to this lovely G06 example.

The VF25 Roanoke Island has found a new home within the 'family' of passionate collectors ... and as such we all benefit from the rare appearance of another true lowball classic commemorative.

Great fun chasing this set of lovely, rare and often unique coins.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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LeeG's Avatar
United States
243 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2015  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LeeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wish you the best on your journey to completion.
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/22/2015  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having a debate with myself on how to characterize my newest truly worn classic commemorative ... asking for your valued input to help decide the key question of date authentication.

To be useful as a true lowball the coin must be uniquely identifiable ... and in the case of multiple date and/or mm issues attributable to a specific date and/or mm.

Add to the list of burdens ... original surfaces.

Problem statement - Is the following Columbian half dollar able to be specifically identified as either 1892 or 1893?

I have already checked the box of original surfaces ... and enjoy the color and overall visual balance of this lowball ... but what date is it?

189x Columbian Half Dollar - PO01 (Raw)

Update-#4---Completed-Circulated-Classic-Silver-Commemorative-Type-Set

Enlargement of the date area ... best I can do with my point-and-shoot photography.

Update-#4---Completed-Circulated-Classic-Silver-Commemorative-Type-Set

I hopeful that there are diagnostics relative to the top half of the final date digit the can distinguish between the '2' and '3' ... but am unaware of what they might be.

I've compared all my in-hand examples of both dates ...

Seeking any and all input from you.

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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Hondo's Avatar
United States
1211 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2015  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1892!
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 Posted 01/22/2015  11:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Not Mint to Be to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to say that this is an 1892. The curve in appears to be more rounded than in a 3. The wear pattern on the reverse is very similar to my PO01 1893. My 3 is more faint than yours and you have to tilt it just right to see the 3. The obv is what may keep it from a PO01 depending on who looks at it. In my opinion it should be PO01.
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 Posted 01/22/2015  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Not Mint to Be to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW--This commem has great color. :)
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jbuck's Avatar
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188990 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  09:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will be contrarian and say 1893. Look at what is showing of the top to of the last digit. Compare it to a known two and a known three. The bottom curve (showing; middle actual) appears to be to soon and too shallow for a two.
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Hondo's Avatar
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 Posted 01/23/2015  10:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jbuck, while you may very well be correct, I respectfully disagree.

The middle portion of the last number in the date is much thicker and more rounded that the thin point of the 3.

I just checked a few times against examples of each and I stand by my original 1892 guess.

Either way, awesome coin!
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188990 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You are likely correct.

My issue was the angle and position of the middle curve. I just reviewed several 1892 and 1893 images, specifically looking for more worn examples. I now feel more confident with that part of the two wearing down to match David's image.
CCF Master Historian of USA Commemoratives
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commems's Avatar
United States
12286 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would submit that this could be an 1893.

My reasoning is based on the positioning between the bottom of the serif at the top of the "2" or "3" and the oval within the "9."

On an uncirculated 1892 coin, if a line is drawn from the bottom of the serif of the "2" across and through the interior oval of the "9" you will notice it crosses the "9" lower in the oval relative to the same line drawn on an 1893 coin. See below.

Update-#4---Completed-Circulated-Classic-Silver-Commemorative-Type-Set

Update-#4---Completed-Circulated-Classic-Silver-Commemorative-Type-Set


When I imagine the same line drawn on nickelsearcher's coin, I see it crossing the "9" in the higher (i.e., 1893) position.

Just raising the possibility...


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
188990 Posts
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matttheriley's Avatar
United States
1512 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matttheriley to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, lets get Coop to do an overlay for us! :)
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nickelsearcher's Avatar
United States
15463 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsearcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all for your valued input on this conundrum ... your thoughts and analysis have been readily given in the spirit of support - for which I am very appreciative.

Special thanks to commems for taking the time to create the two images ... very helpful information for the debate.

I am currently leaning towards 1892 ... and if sent to the wizards tomorrow (will not be) would select that on my PCGS submittal.

This date on this coin appears to be divisive amongst the true experts in the field ... I can only imagine how the PCGS wizards will react when challenged to grade one of these seldom seen lowballs.

G06?

It is quite possible that regardless on my 'choice' of dates ... the wizards will return this truly lovely lowball with the dreaded code *86* ... authenticity unverifiable.

I have alas had several of those results.

Thanks again for all your thoughts .... any more out there?

David
Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art
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Hondo's Avatar
United States
1211 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2015  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting stuff commems...
I still think its a 2, but who the heck knows!
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