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How Far Back Can We Go? Fourth Edition! Ended At 1461 Waiting On 1460 C. E. (A. H. 864)

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Spence's Avatar
United States
34447 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2018  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks @giedrius--I bought your book so you might think that I would be able to attribute these things correctly.

Here is another 1/2 Groschen from Lithuania, but dated 1520 AD. I have it attributed as Kopicki 3158 and let's see if I can do any better with the Huletski number: based on the separate front hooves on the horseman, it looks like a knight #7. The head of the eagle looks kinda round, so at first I was thinking that it is an eagle #11. With the obv legend missing a letter A, then the only possibility would be that it is #74N, although I don't see any evidence of the date being an overdate 15Z0/1500 on my coin. Therefore, I'm now thinking that the regular, even triangles on the eagle's neck means that this is actually an eagle #12. In looking at the consistent use of backwards letter Ns in the legends and space for only two vertical annulets at the end of the rev inscription, I'm thinking that this must be #75A. I do note that the upper annulet is off-flan, but the spacing seem more likely to be two (not 3) annulets. Thoughts?


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7968 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2018  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, it's not quite time for 1519, but for the last 10 years in the 1520s, we've accumulated 29 dated coins, or 2.9 per year. About the same as the 1530s, due in no small part to EddieDiz' contributions from Hungary .
Hungary is the leader with 48% of the posted coins, followed by Poland/Lithuania with 17%.

I'm guessing we will do no worse for the 1510s. Let's see!
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
190135 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2018  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great work!

With any luck this will catch up with the third edition by July.
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2018  06:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1519 -- Constance, 1 batzen:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2018  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence Yes, Your coin is 75A IMHO . And the Eagle is No. 12 with no doubt. I'll upload the image of 11 Eagle by our book.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2018  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1519 Lithuanian half-groat, 64C in our book, with a lot of mistakes in legend:
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 05/20/2018  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks @giedrius. Here is another Half Groschen from Lithuania dated 1519 AD. This one is knight type #7 since the fronthooves are nicely separated and Eagle type #5 (with the slots on the wings). There are two annulets after the date and all of the letter Ns are facing forwards on the inscriptions, so this looks like a Huletski 61F to me, but I'd love a little confirmation. For those of you who prefer Kopicki, I have it as a #3151.


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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pepactonius's Avatar
United States
9395 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  12:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1518 -- Passau, 1 batzen:

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  02:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SpenceYes, this is 61F.
Another one - 1518 Lithuanian half-groat, Knight with scabbard, 6th type, mistake MONTEA instead of MONETA in legend,54B in our book.
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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Spence's Avatar
United States
34447 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the confirmation @giedrius. My Half Groschen from 1518 AD doesn't have a scabbard but has the same mis-spelling MONTEA. Looks like a Huletski 53D (Kopicki 3147) to me.


How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
tdziemia's Avatar
United States
7968 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  07:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
1518 -- Passau, 1 batzen


SInce I posed the question earlier about the geographic distribution of the Batzen, I think Passau is the easternmost place we have seen. It is also one of several places in the Germanic world who had St. Stephen as its patron saint (upthread we saw two others, Metz and Halberstadt, posted by 1c5d). The legend on the side with the saint's image, SVB TVO PRESIDIO might translate as "under your protection."
Edited by tdziemia
05/21/2018 07:31 am
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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  12:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spence 5th type of Knight is really rare on coins, dated 1518, and 53D is the great coin! Congrats! 7th type of Knight is most common this year.
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@giedrius

I like to better understand in the table under the 1518 Lithuanian half-groat the rarity index that is used
what is a definition for R3 => R7 in terms of a confidence interval for the number of pieces surviving today?

@tdziemia

Passau, Metz, Halberstadt and Nijmegen with its Stevens' church and very nice but also very rare Stephanus daalder

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giedrius's Avatar
Lithuania
386 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@1c5d7n5m

How-Far-Back-Can-We-Go?-Fourth-Edition!-Ended-At-1461-Waiting-On-1460-C.-E.-A.-H.-864
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1c5d7n5m's Avatar
Belgium
1185 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2018  2:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks giedrius !
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