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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,026 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
Who's the slabber? IMO, the toning on this coin is suspicious.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1511 Posts |
First off,  It's hard to tell if the grades accurate from the photos.. It looks about right but completely toned coins are especially hard to grade from photos. That said... I one of those people that LOVES toned coins... Especially Morgan's. I'll even pay a little over melt for ones that are artifically toned if I really like them. But in honesty $600 seems extremely high for this coin.. Especially in a PCI slab. I'd say $100+/- would be about tops for it.. Far less if its artificially toned. You can get slabbed PCGS, NGC & ANACS toned Morgan's in a grade or two higher for around $150.. And I'm really not trying to be rude or unwelcoming, but I'm sorry to say that $600 is way too high and that to me it doesn't look like natural toning.. It looks it was artificially toned. It could just be me but I don't think it's NT'ed. And if that's the case even $100 would be optimistic... But  . Even if it is natural I really don't see it holding much of a premium at all over the grade.. Even if you hold off for the right collector I don't see it going to $150.. But even at $100 you'll have made a profit. The "monster" Morgan's that go for unbelievable amounts have super eye appeal.. And preferring toned Morgan's this one just doesn't have that appeal to me.. But that just me.. Someone else could love it. Does that look natural to you guys? It really doesn't to me.. Comparing it to the natrual and artificial's I have it screams AT'ing to me? |
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Valued Member
 United States
149 Posts |
It's PCI, the old labels. But it has all the correct die cracks for the VAM 3A I feel like if someone was going to put a coin in a fake slab with fake toning they wouldn't use an authentic MS coin. Unless they could fake the die cracks too, is that possible? |
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
I wasn't planning on it selling for that much at all. Like I said I would start outrageously high and lower it probably by $50 frequently until the end of the month comes. And if it does not sell then I will do an auction starting at $90.
Maybe I was a little too ambitious but you're not crushing any dreams saying that. I thought it would be closer to $200 but if you guys say $100 that's okay too.
I'm puzzled at the artificial toning though, how could it get in an old PCI slab? Are you saying the slab is fake?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
It's possible that the toning was applied by somebody who didn't know the VAM. Many Morgans are quite common in mint state and are a common target for coin doctors. Here are the things that make me think "AT": 1) Equally toned on both sides. This isn't impossible, but the vast majority of toned coins, particularly toned Morgans, show unequal toning (one side fully toned, the other untoned or with just toning around the rim). 2) Toning follows no particular pattern, it's just a "blob" of color. 3) It has the look of a heat-treated coin. 4) Doesn't have the "flaky" quality of most toned Morgans. 5) Less than top-tier slab (although I don't believe PCI is a basement-slabber, they're definitely considered second-rate). Can you provide a high-quality close-up of the date area? |
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
If you click on the photos I already provided that is the best I could give you. I don't have a very good camera
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Moderator
 United States
16679 Posts |
In my opinion, the toning is not artificial. I don't see any blotchiness or signs of over
chemical application so much associated with AT.
Heat would be more obvious and darker than this.
Raymond Wayte or Tidy Morgans have toning on both sides.
Just my observations.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
The grade is probably accurate, the coin authentic, and the toning not obviously artificial. Nevertheless, I agree this toning is not spectacular enough to bring a monster premium. An ordinary MS-63 1887 is a $60 coin. Maybe you could get double that based on the toning, or maybe not. Go ahead and follow your plan and see what happens!
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Valued Member
United States
149 Posts |
Thank you.
Either way, by what most of you are saying, I will make my money back and then some (but not much). I will be happy as long as that happens.
I didn't even question the toning since the coin was authentic and slabbed. But as I keep finding out over the years I need to just question absolutely everything about every single coin I obtain.
Too bad it has to be like that.
Thanks everybody
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
5) Less than top-tier slab (although I don't believe PCI is a basement-slabber, they're definitely considered second-rate). Truth, but that's an original-generation PCI slab, evidenced by the green border, 10-digit serial number and the specific Futura-family typeface used for the label. They're considered to be quite capably-graded in that generation, and I've achieved some significant flips (profit-wise) in them.  |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
Just cause it's in a TPG's holder doesn't mean it's natural toning...I've seen it go either way. As stated, I believe this one is natural. swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4132 Posts |
I've also never seen the phrase "100% Toned" on a slab, but I'm not familiar with PCI slabs.
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
PCI used that syntax back then, Captain, which is part of the reason to consider it as having had the toning we see when it was graded. No guarantee of originality, of course, but I'm inclined to trust it as natural. I'd like to see this puppy under axial lighting. I bet it would go off like a nuke. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
814 Posts |
Just googled axial lighting. Amazing stuff. I had too add it to my want list. Lol
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
Toning and color look okay to me as well. One thing to think of in AT does the color scheme follow the rainbow? Colors can only appear one way naturally, red-yellow-green-blue-violet. That is to say yellow and violet will never touch when the toning is natural, with AT colors can be all over the place and mixed in unnaturally - a dead give away, which I don't see on you dollar. PCI is not the best grader but okay most of the time. I'd personally crack it out since the holder isn't going to bring any extra value, and it probably only makes the toning more subdued. Here is a photo of one I have in an ANACS holder it looks just like my photo in hand under normal light (no saturation stretches or editing of color was applied in processing the digital image.  "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
02/24/2013 03:00 am
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,026 |
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Posted 02/23/2013 8:37 pm
