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Were All Roman Emperors Despicable People?

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
579 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2013  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Whizb4ng to your friends list
Penny is correct about Claudius modern scholars have been rehabilitating his reputation lately. He supposedly could speak Etruscan and wrote on the subject.
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United States
14463 Posts
 Posted 05/08/2013  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fuzzy317 to your friends list
Emperors being despicable and mean, probably was part of their job (& life) security. It was probably a lonely existence.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  03:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list
As said before, you should try for the 5 'good emperors'.

And then collect some of the real evil ones...nearly all the Julio-Claudians were inbred madmen. Caligula road his horse across the sea using merchant ships - because of something a guy predicted to Tiberius. Nero tried to crush his mother with a lead roof. Nero was one messed up cookie. Stuff too bad for a family forum.

If you have the dough, I say you should try and collect a Germanicus too. Well loved by the people and they would come in droves for his 'adventvs'.

Another cool one (but moi pricey) is Carausius. No real source material on him, but he stood for roman values away from Rome - he struck coins in pure silver again and his coins had all sorts of things on them - 'RSR' stood for 'The Good Times are Back' which is on his early bronze, he had legends like 'PACATOR ORBIS' and 'RENOVAT ROMA' which means 'Rome, Renewed'. He put quotes from famous latin texts on his coins despit them circulating exclusively in gaul and Britain.
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Australia
16868 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  03:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list

Quote:
Personally I think Galba would have done really well but then Otho decided to use his head as a ball. Pertinax would have been amazing.

Indeed, many of the "good" emperors were bumped off too early, by people high up in the military who preferred their emperors to be a bit more mercenary, ruthless and plunder-acquiring.

Then there are some emperors who were "pretty good" but received bad press in subsequent generations. Diocletian was a brilliant administrative reformer who was just about the only emperor to voluntarily retire to his villa after serving 10 years wearing the purple. But because he persecuted the Christians (he was the last emperor to do so), subsequent Christian historians gave him a very bad reputation; the early calendar based on year 1 being the accession of Diocletian was known as the "Year of the Martyrs calendar".

But for the most part, the nature of the job meant that the most ruthless, the most driven, the most ambitious, the most cunning tended to rise to the top of the Imperial heirarchy. Such people rarely earn the title "nice".

As a general rule, the emperors who were deified (declared by the Senate to have become gods after they died) were the ones whose legacy was appreciated by their successors and whose passing was generally regretted. So look for coins where the emperor is acclaimed as "DIVVS" (or "DIVO").
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  09:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
On Elagabalus, part biography
by Seth W. Stevenson from his book 'A Dictionary of Roman Coins' p.356:

"The next day, as Elagabalus had given orders to arrest those who had taken a leading part in the insurrectionary movement of the day before - the rest of the soldiers took advantage of that occasion to get rid of a prince they detested; and they killed Elagabalus, together with his mother Soeamius and his principal confidants.

His body, after being dragged through the city, was thrown into the Tiber. Thus perished, on the 11th of March, one of the most cruel, debauched and shameless wretches, that ever disgraced humanity, or polluted a throne, after a reign of three years and nine months, disfigured with every figure of hideous criminality, and extravagant folly, not having attained more than the eighteenth year of his age."
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United States
3445 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
The standards of the times were very different than today. No one ever questioned the death penalty or the 'custom' of enslaving defeated people or removing anyone who posed a threat from this world. The bodies of "Enemies of the State" were dragged through the streets and thrown into the Tiber. It was a very different world. A Professor of mine once remarked that it would be quite easy for one of us (students) to wind up getting stoned to death for doing something inappropriate if we could 'go back' so to speak. It was a veeeery different world with even the most enlightened people knowing that things like magic daemons and witches were very real and to be identified and dealt with.
Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  10:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin85 to your friends list

Quote:
Antoninus Pius, Theodosius I had a couple of controversial moments but he was good, Marcus Aurelius, Hadrian, Trajan.


I pretty much agree with this quote. However, in reality I think all bosses are evil. Just my opinion. Sorry bosses who are reading this, but I bet you some bosses reading this would agree and don't care.
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United States
655 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  8:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NJ Bob to your friends list
OK, I know I've posted about this before but I really, really think this far and away the very best series of podcasts I've heard.

http://thehistoryofrome.typepad.com/

I encourage anyone interested in Roman history to listen to it.

I listened to it on my commute to work and I'm probably going to listen to it all over again in the near future.

Mike Duncan (the host) mixes it up with humor and it never gets dry.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2480 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ThisIsFun to your friends list
RE those podcasts-- WOW, what an epic undertaking! I've never downloaded or listened to podcast recordings before, will check it out.
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23731 Posts
 Posted 05/09/2013  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
There is so much excellent information on the web about Ancient history. He is a site about the lives of the Roman emperors.

http://www.roman-emperors.org/impindex.htm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
946 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2013  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Masis to your friends list
One emperor who has had a "lousy press", who comes to mind, is Gallienus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallienus
Dealing with the many Germanic invasions of the empire, his father (and a substantial amount of Senate members and their followers) being kidnapped by the army of the Persian king, Shapur I, after the battle of Edessa, then men he trusted, rebelling against him, such as Ingenuus, Regalianus, Postumus and Aureolus.

He created a new cavalry corps, which was desperately needed to deal with so many invasions and military revolts that occured.
The provinces of Syria had to be left to the control of the local dynast, Odenathus, to defend against subsequent Persian invasions, it would not be until the reign of Aurelian that the region would be brought back into the empire, as with the breakaway "gallic empire" created by Postumus.

Gallienus forbade members of the Senate from having military positions, maybe after the fracas of Edessa, a wise choice.
For that, they hated him, and this bias has come down to us in the understanding of this emperor.
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United States
325 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2013  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin85 to your friends list
If I had to say some were good and some were bad it'd be good: nerva, trajan, hadrian, antonius pius, Marcus Aurilius.

Bad, = Caligula, Elgabalus, commodus, Nero, Domitian.

All bosses suck though in the end. Some are better than others though I guess.
Valued Member
United States
325 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2013  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin85 to your friends list
eh sorry guys, I just can't stand my boss I have currently. When I think back I've had good bosses too. Sucks taking orders but some were good some bad. I should be more fair towards these emperors and bosses.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2013  05:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list
One more, Vetranio. He was a good guy. Usurper, technically, but remained loyal to the emperor. He took the purple so he could march against the usurper magnentius to stop the guy taking over the empire. As soon as he finished the job and his army met the army of Constantius II which had been tied up in Persia, he abdicated. Although his only actions were warring, he was probably the most loyal to the empire.
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Canada
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 Posted 05/11/2013  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list
The thing about Stoicism, though, is that it kept the army in check, keeping them obedient. There was even a manual sent out to each foot soldier. So for an emperor this was a pragmatic philosophy to endorse but not necessarily follow.
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