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 Replies: 39 / Views: 5,491 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
So what should I make of this? I've been outbid on this item. And when I looked at the other bidder's stats I find:
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 198
Items bid on: 51
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100%
I'm not happy. Do I continue to bid on this seller's items or not? I feel like I'm being cheated.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
Who cares if it is or isn't shill bidding. Why would you continue to bid on auctions if you are suspicious of the seller?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
I tracked down the other bidder. Pops up every few months, bids on the same few sellers, receives and gives identical feedback each time, though often doesn't give any feedback for items won. Obviously I shall not be increasing my bid, even though I wanted this item. And I reported the seller to ebay. Still annoyed though. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2895 Posts |
That does sound very dodgy... I think if you just bid what you are prepared to pay then shills shouldn't matter, though it is distasteful to find out a seller is doing that.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
Do I continue to bid on this seller's items or not?
I would just say if you like the stuff (especially if its hard to find) just bid what youre willing to pay and dont worry about them trying to inflate the price. I would put in a single bid with you max and if it goes over that than oh well, if you get it in your desired range then you get it. I do completely agree though with not increasing the bid and engaging in bidding wars on an item from a seller that does stuff like that |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:I tracked down the other bidder. Pops up every few months, bids on the same few sellers, receives and gives identical feedback each time, though often doesn't give any feedback for items won. Obviously I shall not be increasing my bid, even though I wanted this item. And I reported the seller to ebay. Still annoyed though. The conclusion is obvious - to me as well - but not even if the bidder could be traced as the seller's next-door neighbor could shill bidding be "proven." Now, ebay doesn't need that level of proof, since it's their sandbox. They can ban on whatever evidence they wish. Just don't expect them to. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1291 Posts |
Two things crossed my mind as I read through this thread: 1.) Not everyone uses PayPal to pay for their ebay purchases, but I suspect that most do. I would love to know if there are corresponding PayPal transactions for every sale/purchase between these two. If there was, then I'd actually lean toward the "loyal customer" choice because, otherwise, he'd be paying a lot in fees while not actually selling these items. If there's NOT a corresponding PayPal transaction for all of these sales...well...that's a red flag right there. ebay would KNOW if there was or wasn't, but of course they will NOT share that info... 2.) Have any of you folks who are bird-dogging this seller noticed if any of the items he sells to this loyal buyer ever come up for re-sale at some future date? After all, if it's a shill he really hasn't sold the item and might try listing it again. |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
On a similar note, if there was EVER any doubt that Great Southern Coins engages in organized shill bidding on ebay, I offer the following profile as absolute proof: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....one_ViewLink ebay rating = 1 bids in the last 30 days = 4160 (139 bids per day) bids with this seller = 95% (3952 bids with Great Southern Coins and a rating of 1?) How can this happen? It can't. Just to make sure the info is safe, I saved a series of screen shots. Thoughts? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Just my .02. If it can be thought of.....and can be done.....someone will do it. I'm convinced that it goes on. It's very easy to do. Previous poster pretty much confirmed that. But like someone said up thread, I don't worry about it, and if I don't know what something is worth that I'm bidding on, shame on me. I'm a firm believer that nobody gets away with anything, and that what we sow, we reap. I've had a fraudulant listing or two removed, but as far as policing shill bidding, that's just a bit too ambitious for me. Just for the grins....if you sent GSC an email stating that this particular bidders history looked odd, I will venture to guess that he would disappear.......but probably just pop up under another name anyway. Again, just my .02.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4600 Posts |
Agreed... about all we can individually do is decide not to buy from them. If asked, I'll be happy to explain why, but well, caveat emptor...
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Funny, wish is never read this thread  Now I must be getting paranoid, and noticing stuff. Just looked at this bidding history. How come my coins never bid up to half the value in 1 day? Mine sit just north of .99 for a week, and move in the last day or two. Gimme a break....bidding in $100 increments. Yeah,I know they're safe bids, but still. Just sayin'.... Things that bid up "way early" are a red flag for me. http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....171173518182 |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
With respect to the previous poster's comments, there is an old saying that "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one is out to get to you." The specific coin you cited is pretty rare, so to a modest degree some bidding might fall outside what is typical. I believe most seasoned eBayers know that serious buyers of auction lots tend to bid very late in the game indeed- usually in the last 10 seconds. However it's not possible to generalize completely. What I see on ebay that makes me paranoid is more or less garden variety coins that get 3 bids within the first few hours after they get posted followed by repeated incremental bids from a few bidders. And the concept of IP address as a means of gatekeeping is preposterous. If your boss told you and the rest of your staff, "I'll pay you to work from home, in your underwear, with a beer in your hand, from your own computer (and IP address), and all you have to do is place bids on ebay in a specific pattern;" would most people resist? And if they did, how long before they are pushed out of the company in favor of a more compliant employee? In the case of Great Southern Coins, the premise that they have loyal customers who bid with them repeatedly and almost exclusively loses any fantasy of credibility when they have bidders bidding 4,000+ times in one month while maintaining an ebay rating of 1. I'm going to write my own personal guide to detecting shill bidding and post it here for other's enjoyment and commentary. Thanks and all the best, Ed |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
I certainly dont disagree with your take on shill bidding it certainly does happen as some sellers use it as a built in reserve for their "no reserve auctions", however at the end of the day though only you can decide how much youre willing to pay. Stick to your personal limit and youll win some and lose some. For what its worth heritage and stacks bowers and everything else shill bid too. Watch their prebid auctions and see how low the prices are then once it goes live the price jumps to a bid below the reserve level so the first bid will meet the reserve. Its not something thats unique to ebay by any means. Granted some ebay sellers do get more aggressive with the shill bidding trying to get every last dollar out of it they can instead of just acting as a reserve, but thats always been the nature of auctions. If you think its happening it probably is, but youre still the one who sets your own limit for what youll pay. |
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Valued Member
United States
259 Posts |
Basebal, I've never noticed that about Stack's. Very interesting,...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4600 Posts |
Re Stacks & Heritage, that is NOT shill bidding. That is bidding from the order book.
Let's say I bid $25 on the internet.
You called in a $50 bid.
The opening bid was listed at $10.
They COULD start at $27.50 - "I have fifty from a bidder not in the room, do I hear 30?"
But where is the excitement in that?
Instead they start at $10.
Bid 10, do I hear 11, 11 do I hear 12 .. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22.50 25 27.50 do I hear 30.
They've tossed 14 bids in 30s and people in the room are thinking wow, that must be a hot lot for all the action. If there is any floor or phone action they can walk the bid up to the $50 max from you.
So they make more money for the seller (their client) and themselves.
-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
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Posted 07/18/2013 4:00 pm
