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You Vs. NGC: 1811 Key Date Half Cent

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Pillar of the Community
1751 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list
VG8 was my initial thought.
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add morgandude to your friends list
F-12 or F-15 is my feeling
Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  10:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list
I'll go with G-6.
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United States
3345 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rachums107 to your friends list
10/70
Pillar of the Community
Israel
2420 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add supgog to your friends list
I see no reason why this one won't make F12. In any case, it looks problem free to me and I'll be surprised if it grades below VG as suggested here.
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United States
16680 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  12:04 am  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list
It's corrosion free. I'm also thinking cleaned/recolored..has that appearance. You have to see enough old copper to start noticing the subtleties.
It's a good looking coin regardless. I'm thinking NGC called it VG8 details.
In EAC terms, I'm calling it 12/15.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Australia
1874 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add flippy to your friends list
I think its a VG8
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United States
373 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ProfLiz to your friends list
Thanks for all your input. It appears that CCF members can see different grades for this coin (ranging from G6 to F15), just like I do.

Here's what NGC says:

You-Vs.-NGC:-1811-Key-Date-Half-Cent


D0ubl3Eagle got the grade; everyone else graded higher. I personally think the level of obverse detail takes it easily into the VG range, if not F. My theory is that the reverse rim weakness was interpreted as wear (AG), thus giving a net grade of G; however, I believe the rim weakness is strike, not wear.

With respect to the question of cleaning, I don't see it in hand, but am willing to entertain the notion from the experts here.

In the meantime, I have replaced this coin in my Half Cent set, and I have a tiny inclination to send it in to try for an upgrade. I'd probably either regrade at NGC or crossover at PCGS. I'm not brave enough to crack this one out and submit it raw, since I'm worried about a details grade. (I've found the TPGs can be hard on worn coins.)

Any words of wisdom?
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United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Dang, I had G6 first and edited my answer before you posted. Doh!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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United States
373 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  6:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ProfLiz to your friends list
Well, don't worry, westcoin, I think you chose wisely to change it!
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United States
9796 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  7:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
IMO NGC seems to get more copper coins wrong usually by overgrading them than undergrading them, I still think it was quite undergraded even at VG8 this is a quite nice example of a tough date Half Cent. EAC standards probably wouldn't even be that cruel to it.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Pillar of the Community
United States
688 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yhbearcats to your friends list
Nice coin, especially the obverse.

I would have said VG-8 for the grade, G-6 seems a little low
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United States
1959 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jpbone to your friends list
Wow. Tough break. I would have said VG-10.
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 Posted 09/03/2013  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJsCoins to your friends list
Nice copper! Congrats!
I would give it VG8.
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United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2013  12:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list
I find it difficult to argue a Fine grade. For a F, I would like to see some separation between the larger hair curls behind the ear and by the neck though the curls may be lacking additional detail. The way I usually like to picture a G, which can vary between designs, is basically a silhouette with maybe a little bit of detail remaining and the obverse seems to fit that description. The reverse does look a little bit stronger and based on examples that I have been comparing it to, many do show weakness on the left side, possibly from a slightly misaligned die. So I agree that must be taken into consideration while grading. I can see a case being made for a VG and it could grade that if resubmitted. Many of these early U.S coins have intricacies with regards to grading which a specialist such as yourself would be much more familiar with than someone who is more of generalist like myself.

For those who gave an EAC grade, I was wondering how you came to that grade. I am trying to learn a bit more about the system. I am not totally sure if it's correct but from what I was told the sharpness grade is strict ANA standards with a net grade given based on the imperfections and the terms scudzy, average, and choice are used to describe the eye appeal.
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