This coin should ideally be inspected in hand however here are a few tips for you to try and determine it's authenticity.
Firstly is there a line around the edge of the coin or a flaw in the reeding on the edge? This would give credence to the possibility of a cast coin.
Secondly if you have a magnifier take a look at the mintmark. Is the area around it flat? Does the S seem consistent with other Sydney Sovereigns? If the area around it is flat or the S is not consistent then it may be an altered mintmark.
Thirdly have a long look at the date and compare it to the other 1877s Sovereigns if you can find a picture. If you can't find a picture of the other two examples have a look at the style of the 7's in the date compared to other sovereigns. If they are inconsistent with the 7's used on other Sovereigns then it may be an altered date.
Fourthly when you did the XRF what other metals were present? If it is copper which makes up the rest of it's composition then it has the correct metal mix as the planchets were made in 92.5% Gold and 7.5% Copper(Silver was initially mixed with Gold for some of the early Sydney Mint coins but was discontinued due to it's value.)
If you pause the video at 0.29 and have a close look at the rim between 1 and 2 o'clock as it doesn't look right. The denticles on both sides of that area are well struck but that part has what appears to be no denticles. This in itself would lend credence to casting.
It looks pretty similar to my untrained eye to my 1885s though I'm certainly no expert. Finding a picture if the other 2 is proving difficult, frankly I was kind of hoping someone here might know of a good place to look. It XRFd 22k copper gold and the weight is dead on so if it isn't real I think it's an attempt at a counterfeit rather than a jewelers copy (no evidence of it being attached to a necklace it ring)...except if it's a counterfeit, why make one that would immediately be noticed as suspect by the sort of people who would regularly handle sovs like bankers or high level traders? I still think on balance it likely isn't one of a couple made that year but it's an odd choice for a fake.
If anyone knows where I might find a picture of the '77 s st george I'd be forever grearful. Cheers.
There was apparently a load of fake Oz. Sovereigns imported into Australia in the 1960's,you never hear about them anymore so they have either disappeared into the ether or the whole story was a Furphy.The Coin Dealer that spoke to us one period a week back then(at School) said a Oz Squash player bought back a bag/hoard from the Middle East(Egypt/Turkey?) after attending a Tournament there.
Apologies got the late reply and poor quality pictures, I've been having camera problems so these are just phone pics but they will give you an idea.
Noble's seems like the place, I had the coin looked at locally and been referred to him as well. My girlfriend has wanted to go away on a short holiday, maybe Sydney is the go and I can kill two birds with one stone. Plus the Sydney Mint is nearby, maybe they have done records or pictures that might help.
Frankly at this point I would settle for a picture of another example. Sydney sovs of this period apparently have some variation in different aspects of the layout, like the position of the s mint mark, if I could see another verified one I could compare them and possibly discredit this one in a few minutes. I still think it's likely a fake but you have to run it downb just in case.
with Basil. Laser optic profiling, with spark erosion die cutting, to produce a false die. The coin is probaly made from good gold, sourced by melting low grade common sovereigns. That could be the reason why it XRF'ed OK.
The left hand coin looks to be die struck, with the die made by laser optic profiling, the model stored as data on a computer. A die was subsequently cut by a spark erosion process, using the previously stored data.
In most cases, the freshly cut die is cleaned up manually, but I suspect that in ths case, it was not done, perhaps due to a lack of skill needed to do the die clean up work. With poor skill the tooling around the lettering and details becomes far too obvious. They may well have reasoned 'better left alone'.
The detail from the riders head down the mane to his hand and reins are all wrong,thats what first stands out to me but in reality almost all detail on the reverse is different from a standard Sov.The 77 looks like its been added to a standard fake 18xx die. The fake Sovs. in the 1960's were made out of Gold,way of value adding to the low Gold price of around $20 oz back then.
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Posted 12/12/2014 04:27 am
with Basil.
