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Replies: 52 / Views: 6,027 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Quote: I live in a country where all coinage is made of plated steel, it doesn't rust. That's what the nickel plating does, it stops the coins from rusting. Rust prevention? Yes and no. I've found a number of more modern Canadian coins in circulation this past year (stuff from 2011 through 2013),and I'd estimate about half of them are really messed up. One side looks fine and you think you've found a nice example, flip it and see where the coin's gotten severely scratched (in two examples you could tell the top plating was scratched off in several spots going in a relatively strait line) Those scratches will rust. Look at Zincolns, I couldn't begin to tell you the number of cents I've come across this year alone (from January 1st) that you can see the zinc underneath. As far as using inox steel, they are able to produce it cheap enough (look at any large retailer), but it might be too expensive for usage as coinage. But, it'd last thousands of years. I firmly believe the solution is redenomination (by possibly a factor of 100...the old 100 becomes the new 1, etc.); otherwise we risk a future (few decades, a century) in which the lowest denomination produced is the 100 or the 1000 or even higher. And what does that say about a nation? That, of course, is the low end estimate. If the US dollar ceases to be the world reserve currency, the value of it could collapse, as well if the US debt continues to go through the roof, the nation could collapse. In other words, if we continue the way we're doing, I don't think this country or currency will exist by 2100. But, if it does, do we want to be able to buy something at a store for under a dollar or do we want to NOT be able to buy anything at a store for under 100 dollars or more. Furthermore, people say the value of $1 50-60 years ago is now $10 today...the question is 'why?' The answer? Silver. Before that inflation was kept in check via gold and silver. Redenominate, eliminate existing currency, go back to gold and silver. Add in some other precious metals to allow the monetary supply to be inflated even more if need be, and the problem is solved. There is an absolute cap in the amount of money that can be in circulation (via paper) without risking default. That, however, is my opinion on the matter. Nothing more than that...and I highly doubt it will ever come to fruition.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1228 Posts |
Update:Quote:February 9, 2015 By Michael Zielinski â€"22 Comments A bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives which seeks to quickly and dramatically alter the composition for all current circulating United States coins. Specifically, the bill would require the one-cent, five-cent, dime, and quarter dollar coins to be produced primarily of steel, with the change implemented 90 days after the enactment of the Act. The bill H.R. 516 or the “Cents and Sensibility Act” was introduced on January 22, 2015 and represents the third attempt from Rep. Steve Stivers of Ohio to alter the compositions of circulating coins. In 2011, he introduced two separate bills which separately sought to immediately alter the composition of cents and nickels to steel. In 2013, a bill was introduced seeking to alter the compositions of cents, nickels, dimes, and quarters to primarily steel. The current bill contains much the same provisions as the one introduced in 2013. The bill calls for the four denominations to be produced primarily of steel and meet such other specifications as the Secretary of the Treasury may determine appropriate. The coins are to be treated in such a manner that they are similar in appearance to the coins produced prior to the date of enactment. Lastly, there is a requirement to use only steel produced in the United States unless the Secretary finds this requirement to be inconsistent with the public interest or an adequate supply of United States steel is not available. There are additional requirements for the conversion to new coin specifications. These include the stipulations that such specifications would not require more than one change to coin-accepting and coin-handling equipment, facilitate or allow the use of coins or tokens of lesser value in place of circulating coins, or require non-trivial changes to coin-accepting or coin-handling equipment to accommodate co-circultion of coins carrying the new and old specifications. Finally, there is an allowance for the Secretary of the Treasury to produce numismatic versions of the cent, nickel, dime, and quarter in compositions in place before the act. The issue of circulating coin composition had gained significant attention when declining production volumes and increasing base metal costs drove the United States Mint costs to produce the cent and nickel to more than double their respective face values. For the 2011 fiscal year, the cost to produce and distribute the two lowest denominations rose to a peak of 2.41 cents per cent and 11.18 cents per nickel. Since this time, rising production volumes and lower base metal prices have served to reduce the costs of producing these denominations, although both still remain well above their respective face values. For the 2013 fiscal year, the cost to produce and distribute the cent was 1.66 cents and the cost for the nickel was 8.09 cents. Despite the losses generated by the two lowest denominations, across all circulating denominations, the Untied States Mint has consistently generated positive seigniorage. For the 2013 fiscal year, seigniorage generated from circulating coinage was $289.1 million. Amidst the legislative attempts to immediately alter the composition of circulating coins, the United States Mint has been conducting research and development activities with regards to circulating coin composition under the Coin Modernization, Oversight, and Continuity Act of 2010. The most recent biennial reported delivered in December 2014 outlined the potentially significant private sector costs of a dramatic change in coin composition and indicated planned additional research into seamless materials which would have the same electromagnetic signature as current coinage. The current bill H.R. 516 has two cosponsors and has been referred to the House Financial Services committee. http://news.coinupdate.com/reintrod...arters-4674/
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: Canada does a lot of things right with coins and currency that the US could emulate. Elimination of the Cent, plated steel coins and viable dollar coins and Two dollar coins (made viable by elimination of the paper equivalents) has made Canada's currency cost effective and efficient. Don't forget the elimination of paper notes with a switch to polymer. Much longer life for the notes. Unfortunately the only thing we seem to be emulating of theirs is a rapidly expanding sales list of coins from the mint. At least from Canada they are different coins. We get the same coins in different sets.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Why not just get rid of all coins? Use only paper money. Start with the one Cent paper bill, then a 2 Cent, 3 Cent, all the way up to a thousand dollar bill. One Cent at a time.  This would make everyone so mad they would simply start using their credit/debit cards more. Thus eliminating the use of our cash money altogether. I keep predicting this will someday be the future of our money anyway. 
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
and you guys don't have unscrupulous retailers charging an extra fee to use your debit or credit cards? I hate these, you cannot eliminate until you mandate zero fees from both banks and retailers. (good luck with this one)
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Moderator
 United States
189482 Posts |
Here the fees are paid by the retailer, not the customer. However, some places around here give unofficial cash discounts. I say unofficial because I believe the PCI agreement forbids them.
Edit to add: It appears they are prohibited from charging convenience fees on electronic transactions, but giving cash discounts is okay.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
999 Posts |
Just Carl writes: Quote: Why not just get rid of all coins? Use only paper money. Start with the one Cent paper bill, then a 2 Cent, 3 Cent, all the way up to a thousand dollar bill. One Cent at a time. While obviously the idea of fractional currency makes even less cents than the penny these days, the era of fractional coins is coming quickly to an end.
Edited by n9jig 02/13/2015 05:52 am
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Pillar of the Community
708 Posts |
As I've asked before, why doesn't this Congressman seek for the half and the dollar coin to also be made out of primarily steel? I know that halves and dollar coins are currently only being made for collector purposes, but steel bags and rolls of halves and dollar coins would be cheaper as well, but, if the base metals of cents, nickels, dimes, and quarters change to the cheaper, steel, would that make the current cents, nickels, dimes, quarters, halves and dollar coins more valuable? Or at least, worth hoarding for the future prices of copper, nickel and zinc, if they take a steep rise?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
999 Posts |
Steel makes sense if the coins cost less with it and can still be functional. The clad composition used for the current dime, quarter and half is cheap enough to remain feasible for these coins. AFAIK the different clad composition used on the dollar coins is also feasible.
It is just the nickel and penny that are an issue. As said before, the penny is not a feasible coin in any material as it costs more to produce and use it even if the material was free. The nickel is getting there too.
I wouldn't have a problem with coins of steel but it really just doesn't make sense right now. The coins above 10 cents are fine for now, the coins below that should just be eliminated. If there were to be some sort of radical change to the coinage system, such as a total re-imagining, re-valuing or something then a wholesale composition change would be appropriate.
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Moderator
 United States
189482 Posts |
Quote: While obviously the idea of fractional currency makes even less cents than the penny these days, the era of fractional coins is coming quickly to an end. While this is true, I need to point out that just carl should be known for his sarcasm.  Quote: As said before, the penny is not a feasible coin in any material as it costs more to produce and use it even if the material was free. The nickel is getting there too. Again, quoted for truth.  Quote: I wouldn't have a problem with coins of steel but it really just doesn't make sense right now. The coins above 10 cents are fine for now, the coins below that should just be eliminated. If there were to be some sort of radical change to the coinage system, such as a total re-imagining, re-valuing or something then a wholesale composition change would be appropriate. I agree. At this point I feel the cost is a wash and the only benefit is to the steel lobby.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
999 Posts |
Jbuck postulates: Quote: While this is true, I need to point out that just carl should be known for his sarcasm. Hence my comment that it makes no cents, pun intended.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1228 Posts |
Quote: SAVE Act Seeks to Prohibit Non-Cost Effective Coins February 13, 2015 By Michael Zielinski
A bill introduced in the House of Representatives which seeks to provide for savings, accountability, value, and efficiency in government spending would have significant and potentially unintended consequences for coins. The bill H.R. 614 known as the SAVE Act was introduced by Rep. Patrick Murphy of Florida on January 28, 2015. A similar bill had been introduced in the 113th Congress and gained 21 cosponsors, but failed to become law. The current bill is 60 pages in length and contains a large number of provisions intended to cut wasteful spending and improve government efficiency. Rep. Murphy stated in a press release, "The SAVE Act would cut $479 billion in government waste through common-sense provisions that have garnered bipartisan support." Among these provisions is Sec 208 of the bill which prohibits the non-cost effective minting and printing of coins and currency. With regards to coins, the bill would amend Section 5111 of title 31, United States Code by adding at the end the following: "
(e) Prohibition on Certain Minting- Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, the Secretary may not mint or issue any coin that costs more to produce than the denomination of the coin (including labor, materials, dies, use of machinery, overhead expenses, marketing, and shipping). The United States Mint currently produces two circulating coins which cost more to produce and distribute than their respective denominations. Based on the figures from the 2013 fiscal year, the cost to produce and distribute the cent was 1.66 cents and the cost for the nickel was 8.09 cents. All other circulating coins are produced and distributed at a cost less than their respective denominations. Accordingly, if the bill were to become law, the Secretary of the Treasury would be prohibited from minting and issuing cents and nickels. Notably, the text of the bill does not qualify the prohibition to circulating coins, which may give rise to unintended consequences for bullion and numismatic coins produced by the United States Mint. The Mint currently produces five bullion coin series across three precious metals. These include the American Gold Eagle, American Silver Eagle, American Platinum Eagle, American Gold Buffalo, and the America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Bullion Coins. In all cases, the bullion coins have nominal denominations assigned which are far below the intrinsic value and market selling prices of the coins. Unlike the circulating coins, the US Mint does not issue the bullion coins at their nominal denominations. Rather they are sold to distributors based on the market value of the precious metal content plus a mark up which covers the Mint's costs and provides for a small profit margin. As such, the denomination of these coins has no bearing on whether or not their production is cost effective. Similarly, the Mint produces numerous commemorative coins and other numismatic products with production costs greater than their denominations. Once again, the denominations have no correlation to the cost effectiveness of the products since their are sold at fixed prices which cover all costs and include a profit margin. Based on the current text of the bill, the SAVE Act would seem to prohibit the production of bullion and certain numismatic coins since their production costs exceed their denominations. Coin Update raised these issues when a similar bill had been introduced in the 113th Congress. Ultimately, the previous bill did not become law, but the reintroduced the bill contains the same troubling provision.
http://news.coinupdate.com/save-act...-coins-4684/
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Valued Member
United States
212 Posts |
Why do you even talk about the bullion coins? Do some people seriously use them for face value?
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Moderator
 United States
189482 Posts |
Quote: Hence my comment that it makes no cents, pun intended. Totally missed it!  I am going to have to keep my eye one you.  Quote: Notably, the text of the bill does not qualify the prohibition to circulating coins, which may give rise to unintended consequences for bullion and numismatic coins produced by the United States Mint. Even though they have a face value, they cannot leave the mint without being bought for their premium. However, it states denomination, not MSRP, so they probably need to fix it before voting.  By the way, we have a dedicated topic here... https://goccf.com/t/198123
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote: Why do you even talk about the bullion coins? Do some people seriously use them for face value? If you read the legislation it says no coin (with a face value) can be minted if it costs more than its face value to produce it. An ASE has a value of one dollar and it obviously costs more than that to mint it so it would be eliminated...along with all other precious metal products Obviously no one uses them at face value and that's why the bill got nowhere previously...and the same reason it will get nowhere again. It does NOT differentiate between coins for circulation and collector/investor coins which are sold at a profit.
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Replies: 52 / Views: 6,027 |
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