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1970 PL Nickel Dollar Doubling, Possible New DDO, Notched A

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2523 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  1:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
So, how is the verdict? Does it look like a doubled die or a doubled hub? Or something just happened to the A and I am seeing things?
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Canada
10464 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
Here are the photos:

A of REGINA
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

N of REGINA
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

I of REGINA
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

E of REGINA
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

R of REGINA
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

II of ELIZABETH II
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

H of ELIZABETH
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

T of ELIZABETH
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

Z of ELIZABETH
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

I of ELIZABETH
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
10464 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  2:47 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
I am unconvinced that this is a doubled die. The A in REGINA looks like the die or master punch was damaged. The doubling is seen all around the legend, at the top of each letter, which suggests to me of Die Deterioration Doubling. The best letters to look at, for possible die doubling would be the I and Z in ELIZABETH. Perhaps you should solicit the help of those in the US Modern Variety section on CCF to comment, those folks (e.g., Coop) are way more experienced in seeing small die doubling than I am.

I am pretty sure the R in REGINA, at the bottom of the character, is a die chip.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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2360 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDon to your friends list
I submitted my 1967 Canadian PL Dollar on that forum and Coop was quick to respond.
He made a quick but accurate determination of the doubling in my case, MD.

Make sure to have a note in the title so that the Mods don't kick the
topic back to the Canadian variety and error forum.
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Canada
2523 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
I didn't look at the ELIZABETH, actually. I don't remember anymore what I saw on that coin but looking at it head-on looks very different than looking at it tilted it a bit (and the tilting bit is just to reduce glare when photographing).

I'll put up a thread there then to get their attention.
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 Posted 03/12/2015  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
I moved it to the US variety sub-forum...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2015  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
The mark on the "A" might be a hub issue. If a lot of those coins have this, it maybe the problem. I'm not familiar with the Canadian coins. Beautiful coinage. Just don't see it on a regular basis. I've seen a lot of Die Deterioration and Machine Doubling on this thread so far. But when I think doubled dies, I look for the devices to be enlarged. Not just with notching like on the "A" on this thread. So if you have more examples to made a side by side comparision, that would help a lot to see if the devices are enlarged/showing spread. Hope this helps.
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 Posted 03/13/2015  01:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JDRMCB to your friends list
I just looked at 2 of my 1970 P/L sets and they both show the exact notch at the apex of the A and the extended lower bar of the N of REGINA, as well as all the other characteristics of the obverse lettering shown in SPPOttawa's pics.
So I must concur with Coop, hub damage and MDD or DDD.
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Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2015  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list
Thats what it appears to be alright. Here's the A&R from mine

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2523 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2015  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list
Thanks for the high res pics SPP and the feedback everyone. Too bad it turned out to be anything special but it was pretty fun for the moment there

Quite amazing how a small angle change and resolution difference can change how a coin and its details look by so much.

As for saying I didn't see any split As in the Mississauga show, I might actually be looking at one and didn't recognise it since aside from the photos I took for reference, I don't even remember what it looks like anymore.
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 Posted 03/22/2015  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aardspeed to your friends list
I found the same "double a" on my 70 dollar coin & it seems the "I" is identicle.

I also noticed this coin is double stamped as it's frosted & the second punch is obvious in the pics below...

Very curious why it looks like numerous layers on some of the edges....I will take full pics when I get a chance.







1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A



1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A


1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A



1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A



1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A


1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

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 Posted 03/23/2015  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aardspeed to your friends list
Here are the full size pics of the 1970 MANITOBA DOLLAR with the "double a" & multiple punching errors on it...
Still curious how the edges of some of the #'s & letters look like layers...
It is a bit dirty, but in great condition otherwise.



1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A
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United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2015  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
I've lurked on this thread with interest; it reminds me of one I started on George VI 50 cents (which didn't generate much response).
https://goccf.com/t/194753

aardspeed, I see similar "layering" on the left side of N and D in CANADA on the late 1940s 50 cents reverse. I don't have the capability to get a good photo (yours are amazing), but with a magnifying glass and the right light angle it seems tripled to me. The points on the A's also seem like a separate layer at the surface of the coin, and the way the N gets thinner at the bottom seems like the bottom "layer" was polished off the die. I stopped thinking it was any real variety and decided it was just the way they made the dies. Here's what I'm talking about from the other thread, as far as where I see it.

1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2015  4:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alexer to your friends list
@aardspeed What would you do if the die's where worn down a bit and the strike was not so great...adjust the pressure no?
When the next shift of workers come on do they not adjust their machines for perfection? The die's are not going to stay the same forever Sooo I have to wonder if these tiny steps on those letters are from regular operation (machine damage) and nothing more because when it comes to double die's I'm not seeing the other indicators.IMO
@Kbbpll I cant see yours to well so no comment.
Edited by Alexer
03/23/2015 4:22 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2015  11:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list
Sorry I can't do any better. This is from a 1945 50 cent. Multiple of my 50 cent coins 1941-1949 show this "layering" on the left side of the N. Don't mean to hijack the thread, just thought it seemed similar to the various pictures of this effect from these later dollars, and thought it interesting that a similar effect is on a different series from a different era.

I drew red lines to highlight. It's pretty obvious under magnification but the only way I can show it is to take the clearest picture possible and then zoom in, so it gets too mushy. Perhaps somebody also sees this on the 50 cent and has better equipment, but probably it's not that important.
1970-PL-Nickel-Dollar-Doubling,-Possible-New-DDO,-Notched-A
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