New Record For The Sale Of A Gnl Listed Counterfeit.

Better news from Tampa over the past two days - at least for myself.

I now own a new GNL variety - first new one of the year (first since November, 2015). Can't take pictures here but it is an 1821 Durango made from engraved dies. By 1821 (in fact by late 1820) Durango had once again resumed using punches to make its dies.

I saw the coin in the inventory of a dealer who is a friend of many years and I may add a collector of counterfeit coins himself so I was just a bit surprised to see it. So I asked to see it. He was sure it was real. However, once I pointed out that this coin was made with engraved dies (the punched elements were different - no two letter As were the same shape - the castles had different outlines and portals, the lions looked like different species of animals, etc ... you get the picture) he knew EXACTLY what I meant. It is a nice early counterfeit but being a very gracious gentleman we settled on a fair price.

Today, I was sitting talking with a past ANA president (Mr. Lewis) and his son when a friend of his came by to chat as well. This man was assembling a Cap and Ray date set. So Mr. Lewis suggested to him that he should have me check the collection. His collection had as the 1824 Hookneck a Riddell # 191 and as the 1832 a Riddell # 165. Both very high grade coins - no test cuts, both purchased from very respected dealers. It was a big surprise for the collector but I had a reprint copy of Riddell with me (1969 Mexican NA reprint) and I could show him exactly what I meant. I bet his next stop was the row of authenticators from each of the grading services to see if I was right.

I also picked up a few interesting duplicate counterfeit types with strange appearances. More than anything else I saw forgeries in significant numbers. Several dealers confirmed origins on ebay. Nuff said.

I was finally able to sell all but two of the coins I brought with me - not the Japanese Yen however. I guess I will keep it for a while.

I also sold a few books.

All in all a very good show.

I hope that did not come across as elitist in tone.

At the NYITL show I saw a 1785 BRASS Eight Reales with a GIII CIRCULAR counterstamp. I said to the dealer I am not buying it! It was only $200.00. Not sure if it was GNL listed. I said let someone else cherry-pick this item. Well at $200 that could be debatable. But I did tell him if I saw at the NTITL 2017 show I would buy it. He had the GNL book so I told him to post to ebay with a $200 reserve.

BTW - Karl Stephens had a MIRACULOUS 8 Reale Spanish Philip V 8R CCC for $250. KM#266 type with hand engraved milled edges at an angle and hand cut lettering - throughout. I also passed as there were other more better regal items at the show in terms of Mexican.

Paul Bosco asked if I could contact an interested GNL book buyer that wanted the GNL book autogrpahed. I gave him my E-Mail so I could pass it over to Gurney.

It was a great show NYITL/NYC in terms of merchandise.

JPL

I will take a look at it tonight (at work) or Bob Gurney can chime in in the interim. I have a lot of RESPECT for this firm and also Civitas Galleries who is posting a lot of KOOL CCCs lately. See their latest Brazil CCCs offerings. I consider these two coin firms excellent avenues for CCC 8R listings - because they are not as BIG as Heritage or Stacks/Bowers and hence the coin cataloging would be much BETTER served. Bob - you listening ... LOL.
BTW - I do not consider that Chihuahua piece to be a Blacksmith. Why? It needs to be on a blacksmith flan - I did review that specimen at NYITL. It has 90* edges (i.e., struck in a collar) and its apples/oranges from a blacksmith type flan. So what is it? A Belleville, NJ mule of Canadian/Mexican dies? <BG>. Just because it does not fit anywhere does not make it a Blacksmith. Why not call it a Mexican mule? But its too late - its already in Charlton due to its Canadian flavor <BG>

JPL

Joe Lang at Stephen Album says it weighs 26.78gm

Realeswatcher - Yes I was at the NYITL from 10AM to 2PM. I did talk to Karl about the CAR CCC 8R piece but I am not sure if it was the same Cast Silver Central American Republic piece I picked up from Civitas recently. From memory I think it was of this type (Cast Silver). I have analyzed my piece and it mimics the Cast Silver WOI pieces (1811-1813) in that it is 92% Ag, crude edges, aged piece, etc.. From my instincts no flavor at all of it being a Modern Forgery - none at all ... we have a lot of information of the tough times during this period so is it some undocumented necessity or emergency money? My instincts said to purchase it and my knowledge of Central America is about as advanced as North Africa ... LOL. Mine was only $100. Not sure what Carlos Jara feels of these issues? Was he the Karl Stephens buyer on the piece you mention in your post? CJ normally does not collect CCC's from my conversations with him but may purchase coins of CCC's on a whim. He would be my guess and he was present at NYITL and the piece sold early during this NYITL event.
Of course I saw the A&C Brass GIII GNL type CCC 8R at $200 ... but I left it for someone else. I had other buys more pressing at the show. I told Luis to put it on E-Bay and use the GNL book. He's been fully educated ... LOL.
I picked up a nice 1817 WOI 8R from Civitas at a good price but that Karl Stephens piece at $250 I mentioned earlier in this thread? was interesting but ran out of cash. This was a 8R CCC Spanish piece. I should have ... LOL. At the show I picked up the following:

1. Cayon an incredible ENSAIE from their last auction. BTW in that other counterstamp circle which appears empty is a RANCON bird seen clearly and of a Supreme Junta style - see Gerber 132 for his double stamp ENSAIE. Talking to Mike Dunnigan he feels the stamp was just broken and the combination of that and going into a previous ENSAIE stamp. Under a stereo microscope its genuine but none of this is mentioned by Cayon.
2. 1817 WOI Restrike. XF.
3. Four CCC Pistareens - one 1709 Pretender the others XF choice - all 50-90% silvered. Starting a personal die study to an eventual paper - not sure - how rare are Pistareen CCC's? Of the cross-types only (1708-1770 or so).
4. LVO 1811 WOI - lay-a-way. XF. Incredible central striking!

Karl - also had one or two C&R CCC 8R's which as Gurney always suspected of the Ag electrodeposition type. Appearance-wise a thin silver film to the eye and v.uniform. I ran some tests in my lab for my new book on other examples and do confirm high silver readings than normal and their microstructure do show a more uniform type application than a Birmingham Sheffield on the base metal surface. Its difficult due to lack of time restraints and with an OLDER machine with the analysis beam on not picking up the underlying base metals (i.e., Cu,Zn & Sn) interfering with the the purity of the Ag electroplated surface layer.

JPL

Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies - 25th Anniversary Edition.

Available probably around November, 2016.

Actually meeting with the Anton family this Saturday to discuss publishing options ( Amazon Books - B&W, Color (different publisher - more high end binding, etc. numismatist copy, E-Media version).

A tribute to William Anton and his original 1992 edition of CCCs - which was predominately English/Irish 1/2d as we currently see in the new Coleman book (not seen yet). My book will be a lot different <BG>.

The entire book is contemporary circulating counterfeits and heavy into Material Analysis and a discussion of the base metals used and silvering/gilding, etc..


JPL

I believe I have a similar one of that TYPE (Pillar) in my Foreign CCC 1500-1800 section.

Its a coin before its time as in my lifetime in this field (10 years) I have seen maybe (4-5) true Dos Mundos CCCs.

During my Kleeberg collecting days I never considered anything outside the Carolus III,IV or Ferdinand VII realm and it was mostly these 2 reales off-metals which sparked my interest.

At that time prior to 2008-2010 Stacks/Bowers JPL Collection dumps I was still heavily into U.S. Colonials - as you may know ...

JPL