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Forum Dad
  United States
24182 Posts |
Rick, you're basing your entire attitude on a few sellers you've found. It's not right. quote:
but when you look at ebay as whole power sellers should have a higher standard
Why? Because they have more gross sales? You're totally missing the meaning of Powerseller, It has NOTHING to do with quality. Sure you have to have a 98.0% feedback rating, big deal. Even to 3 you list as examples for your argument, are 99.2%, 99.2%, and 99.7%. So tell me what does Powerseller have to do with quality? McDonald's isn't a 5 star restaurant, but they'd sure be a Powerfeeder. I can sell 12 brand spankin' new $100 bills for $90 each, or sell 100 recipes for 1¢ each and be a Powerseller. How does that hold me to a higher standard? The whole Powerseller program should be abolished in my opinion. How much you sell shouldn't mean a thing. Each transaction should stand alone. quote:
they are the ones who have been given the breaks on listing fee's and searches and are regarded by many as top sellers , not the guy who sells a couple of hundred dollars worth of coin now and then.
Like I said in my previous post, they've been given nothing. It's all smoke and mirrors. In fact ebay didn't count on the sellers figuring that out and they're backpedaling already adding more discounts in specific categories. Gee, it was in the media categories too. That's because listings dropped drastically within days of the feedback announcement, now ebay's scared of losing these sellers' to places like Amazon and DVD Empire and Alibris.... which they will.... they've already lost some for good. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Bobby
I have looked at thousands and thousands of feedbacks for sellers , but I'm sure that is still well below your experience level ,, so I won't labor the point ,,
But is is simple that something needs to be done to prevent or at least reconcile the feedback ratings when retaliatory negs are left by sellers . It will take 1999 Unique positives for me to have a 100% Feedback rating again ,, at the rate that I buy from unique sellers in three years I have 196 positives from unique sellers ,, do the math that is 30 years to make up for one retaliatory negative .
one more funny from this seller above ,,tell me that this guy ain't cool !
Doesn't give proper credit to the excellent customer first, LOSER in my book Buyer: mgipp ( 116) Dec-19-05 00:23
Reply by jac_online (Dec-19-05 09:03):
OUR FEEDBACK IS AUTOMATED TO RECIPROCATE . IMMATURE CUSTOMER !
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Forum Dad
United States
24182 Posts |
quote:
do the math that is 30 years to make up for one retaliatory negative.
Exactly, and the same exact math is used when a buyer negs a seller because.... they had to wait for their personal check to clear when the listing clearly says no personal checks.... or PCGS body bagged their coin even though the listing clearly stated the coin was cleaned.... or their Indonesian PayPal payment was blocked even though the listing clearly says USA PAYPAL ONLY.... or.... The list goes on.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Its impossible for the buyers to leave retaliatory negatives unless the seller leaves feedback first .
which seldom happens . Those negatives that are left by buyers like you described are also a problem since the buyer was at fault and they would need to be arbitrated also .
But they cannot be described as retaliatory .
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Forum Dad
United States
24182 Posts |
But it's funny that those type of negs stop dead in their tracks if the seller hasn't already left feedback isn't it? Buyers are much more careful when they can be held accountable for their actions. Any buyer that does any of the scenarios above deserves a big fat negative and it can hardly be deemed retaliatory. So to fix this major problem, we now slap duct tape over sellers' mouths and make buyers have no accountability whatsoever. That's brilliant. If these changes go into effect, which I personally don't think they will, ebay is in big trouble. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Ok ,,lets say everything is as stated ,, how do buyers give honest feedback on a bad seller ? If they do then they have to be ready to take the hit on feedback I know ,I know a buyer can bid on any Item even if the only have 10 feedback with 25 negatives accumulated . thats not the point ,, the point is that a bad seller deserves negative feedback but not at the expense of a good buyer taking a negative to do it .just the same as a buyer who does not do what they are supposed to ,, only problem is that feedback is not required ,, feedback is seldom left by the sellers first(Never by a bad seller) although that is not an accross the board indicator of being a bad seller. But somewhere something needs to change and it appears that many more buyers complain about undeserved retaliatory negatives than sellers do ,,otherwise ebay would not have been drawn into such an off center position . I agree that the change as proposed is a knee jerk reaction and has gone further to the other side than it should ,,and there are much better ways of taking care of the problem . the most simple would be an appeal process ,,with punishment by suspension for varying amounts of time for infractions getting greater if they continue . report an unwarranted negative with appropriate documentation 10 ,20 and 30 day account suspensions . 4 infraction NARU applicable either way buyer or seller . with a one year accrual rate ,in other words everyone starts at zero each year . way simpler and a whole lot more fair to both parties . |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
As is the case with most Powersellers, there was a time when I left feedback for buyers as soon as they paid me. Now I wait until I receive it first. I use an automated system which automatically leaves positive feedback as soon as I receive it...this sometimes burns me, because buyers who DESERVE bad feedback will sometimes leave me positive first, knowing that it will be returned. However, it's the best solution for me overall.
It's too risky leaving feedback for a buyer, unless they've already left it for you. I kid you not, I once got a neg from somebody (like 7 or 8 years ago) which said something like, "I just like to leave bad feedback." He did it to everyone he bought from. This was back when I used to leave positive feedback before I received it.
You wanna really flame me, Metalman? Guess what else I do? I sometimes leave negatives to buyers who gave me a neutral. I've had instance where, for example, a customer left me a neutral which said something like, "Good product, but shipping was slow," even though I shipped the product within 24 hours of receipt of payment. Well it isn't my fault that it took USPS 4 days to deliver a 1st class mail package 2,000+ miles from my house. I thought it was horrible for this person to zap me on the feedback for 5-day delivery to the other side of the country...so he got a neg!
People who are primarily buyers have absolutely no concept of how hard it is to be a seller. They can study feedback, etc., but they really just don't know. Ask anyone who is a Powerseller and an active buyer which side is more difficult, and they will ALL tell you that selling is much riskier, much more frustrating, and much more difficult to manage when problems arise. Buyers have avenues to recoup their losses from bad sellers, but sellers have NO power against losses from unreasonable and/or scamming buyers!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
I'm not flaming anyone .If some of the things I have brought up in the conversation sting then its the preacher effect ,, I'm speaking to the group and expressing only my opinion on the subject . what you see here is a conversation with opposing view points ,, I'm a buyer mostly although I have a few sales under my belt also not to power seller status but I'm no dope about it either , but in this instance I'm looking at things from a buyers perspective ,,I have also been the victim of a poor/ business man powerseller very early on in my buying experience on ebay and have been working for a few years to bring my feedback rating up every since. that does not help to make me powerseller friendly or for that matter poor service friendly ,, if you take the time to look at the links I posted you will see that this guy is full of excuses for not taking care of business ,,and no matter that it his fault ( by his own admission) that the package was delayed He still give retaliatory negatives ,, and that is really where the rub is at for me . I'm going to ask this one more time ! and then I'm through with this conversation . How does a buyer give a deserved Negative feedback to a bad seller without being subject to retaliation from that seller ? I suggest that if the answer is "you can't" then the system is broken ,,and needs to be fixed . ebay has found one way to fix the problem and make buyers more comfortable with honest feedback (only really applies to honest buyers) because it goes to far in the opposite direction. so whats the solution? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts |
The answer to your question isn't what you want to hear, but it's kind of simple...and now I'm looking at this strictly from a buyer's perspective. If I was a casual seller, but hardcore buyer, I'd have two accounts. Honestly, negative feedbacks mean NOTHING to people who are only buyers. Most sellers won't look at your feedback unless you are a deadbeat, slow to pay, or otherwise a pain-in-the-butt buyer. You bid, you pay, done deal. As a seller, I'll never look at your feedback unless you don't pay me. For selling, use a separate account and you'll never have to worry about the retaliatory feedback impacting your sales reputation. Personally, I just use one account. I find that most bad feedback comes from buyers, so I prefer to let my buying experiences help my rating. I've only had three bad buying transactions with ebay out of a LOT of purchases. In all instances, I chose to not leave feedback at all because it just wasn't worth it to me. I got my money back from Paypal and that was good enough for me. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
quote:
I'm going to ask this one more time ! and then I'm through with this conversation .
How does a buyer give a deserved Negative feedback to a bad seller without being subject to retaliation from that seller ?
I suggest that if the answer is "you can't" then the system is broken ,,and needs to be fixed .
Honestly there is only one way that I know of and that's for the buyer to wait until the 89th day, 23rd hour, 59th minute and a few seconds out from the 90-day mark to plop the negative on there. But who bothers with figuring out the exact moment when they can leave a negative without giving the other person sufficient time to retaliate? That's what ebay has become. I dont think there is any perfect way to do it. As a seller on ebay more so than a buyer, I agree with alot (if not all) of the issues that mahgobbi brings up. It's many times harder to be a successful seller than it is to be a buyer. I used to do nothing but buy on ebay and it was easy. If there was a problem, and the seller didnt cooperate, easy enough to get a refund. As a seller, you feel alot of times that you are at the mercy of buyers. It's sad but true. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
Thats not a solution to the problem ,,that still means sellers are giving unwarranted negatives to good buyers .
where is the accountability ?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
quote:
Thats not a solution to the problem ,,that still means sellers are giving unwarranted negatives to good buyers .
where is the accountability ?
This goes both ways. From reading through this thread, it seems to me that you are taking the side of the buyer. Even when I pointed out that a buyer could leave a negative in the last few seconds of the alotted time, thereby making it impossible for a seller to retaliate with a negative to the buyer, you came back with a comment about sellers giving unwarranted negatives to good buyers. If your response was to someone else's post I apologize. However, you keep talking about good buyers taking it on the chin, but I hope you realize that good sellers take it on the chin a heck of alot more than the buyers. I have over seven years worth of experience buying and selling on ebay, and easily the majority of bad apples I have had to deal with were when I was the seller. Case in point, my only two negatives ever received were both from buyers. The first one was where the buyer bought the wrong size item from me (this came out after emails back and forth and I called him out on it, then the idiot would not even consider using Square Trade when I offered to pay for it-basically his ego got in the way). It was clear that he made a mistake, and apparently $50 or so was too much for him to accept despite the mistake being 100% with him, so he in essence took it out on me. The second one was where a buyer mailed a money order but there was an issue with the post office delivering it to me, so they returned to sender. Without asking what was up, he blamed me and gave me a negative. So please dont act like only the buyers are taking the hits. With the new rules being put into place for feedback, it's going to get worse for sellers than it was already. That's why I am seriously considering finding another venue to sell things online. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
quote:
If I was a casual seller, but hardcore buyer, I'd have two accounts. Honestly, negative feedbacks mean NOTHING to people who are only buyers. Most sellers won't look at your feedback unless you are a deadbeat, slow to pay, or otherwise a pain-in-the-butt buyer. You bid, you pay, done deal. As a seller, I'll never look at your feedback unless you don't pay me.
Exactly...if you're a seller, there is no way to stop someone from bidding on your item in the last minute who is a problem buyer. The only slight prevention against bad buyers that sellers have are: 1) Block them if they know through networking or having dealt with directly 2) Set up ebay with the automatic bid if the person has 2 non paying strikes in the last month But that still doesn't stop a person from setting up a new fresh account or from using their friends account. As a seller, you are helpless as the clock ticks down on your auctions from stopping a potentially bad buyer who doesn't fit into one of the categories above. By the time you know you have a bad buyer, it's already too late. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7123 Posts |
I really had intended to leave this alone ,,but when a post such as above is posted I feel obligated to respond . to begin with this would be a rather dull conversation if everyone talked about the same side of the problem although I'm sure it would be much more comfortable for the sellers it would not produce anything ,, and make no mistake there is a problem on ebay and that problem is unwarranted and retailiatory feedbacks that are left by sellers on ebay ,why else would ebay suspend their ability to leave feedback for the buyers ? and then with the point of this thread ,,I would say that shipping charges run a close second on the list of things to fix. I will not go into my one and only negative since that info is already in the thread ,,but perhaps you should take a look at it , I have conceded that Buyers by all account can be as bad as the sellers ,,but in the whole of this country the one paying the money has always been the one who has the most protection ,,just a simple fact of Business in the United States,, the consumer has many more avenues to pursue to recover loss than the retailer ,,always been that way and as far as the near future it will remain that way its not your fault or my fault its just the way it is . now as to solutions I posted mine quote:
report an unwarranted negative with appropriate documentation 10 ,20 and 30 day account suspensions . 4th infraction NARU applicable either way buyer or seller . with a one year accrual rate ,in other words everyone starts at zero each year .
but so far the only solution that the sellers have come up with is status quo ,, and let the buyers take on another account so that the retaliatory negatives don't hurt . got news for you ,, that is not a solution and it is exactly the mind set that has put ebay into the mode of change that its in right now .Its obvious to me that they intend to change the way the game is played . please understand ,,I feel for the good sellers on ebay there are many but another fact ,,and I know you agree with this because of your view on buyers ,, the bad make it very hard for the good both sellers and buyers. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- report an unwarranted negative with appropriate documentation 10 ,20 and 30 day account suspensions . 4th infraction NARU applicable either way buyer or seller . with a one year accrual rate ,in other words everyone starts at zero each year . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think this would be a good first step if they could come up with a way to implement it. But I might take it a step further and either block the ISP of the bad buyer or seller, and block the name/address of the bad seller or buyer from registering a new id. The hope is to prevent someone from creating a new account just to retaliate against the other person, and to make them serve their punishment so to speak. Also, I think ebay should make it easier to view the negatives/neutrals received and left by both buyers and sellers. I know there is that toolhaus site that you can use, but alot of people dont know about it. As a seller, I would also like to have access to the number of non-paying bidder strikes that have been posted against someone in the last month, 3 months, and 6 months for example. I guess you could call that some sort of risk management for the seller. As a buyer I would like to see in advance if a seller is one that has a history of not leaving feedback or leaving bad feedback before I give them my business. Maybe one further step is to force buyers to go through a free 3rd party arbitration service (through ebay) that forces both sides to to respond to a dispute in a fixed amount of time. My hope here is to prevent buyers from leaving bad feedback in instances where items are sold as is, or instances where the post office takes forever despite the seller mailing it within 24 hours of payment. |
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Posted 02/16/2008 5:41 pm
