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Another Case Why Ebay Needs To Bring Back Negative Feedback For Buyers...

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5255 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2018  7:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list

Quote:
I don't do auctions either, but I do check the box on the listing page that requires immedient payment with BIN


I wish to mention that this works to the seller's disadvantage if the buyer is getting multiple small items via BIN.

That is because there is a paypal fee per transaction, in addition to the fee as a percentage of the transaction. In several cases the buyer requested me to wait for an invoice.

You do this by putting everything in a cart and request a new total from the buyer. This is how they apply the multiple items shipping discount.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2018  11:11 pm  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list
I read through your terms, John77, and I agree with the other comments that most are completely unenforceable on ebay.

I'm pretty sure most people don't read all of that anyway. I don't because I know what my options are on ebay and I know to be careful. I have a few suggestions:

Require immediate payment for BIN listings. As mentioned, buyers can add items to the cart and checkout/pay for any number of listings all at once.
Offer returns. I generally don't buy (especially coins) if returns are not offered. At least 14 days; 30 would be better and help your seller status. No returns for collectable coins makes it seem like you're hiding something.
If you expect a moderate possibility for returns, charge a Restocking fee. This is a legitimate ebay option. Remember, this is only for straight returns and not for "Item Not As Described" situations. For amiable returns (no case opened), the buyer pays return shipping and original shipping is not refunded (unless you just want to). Only the item purchase price is refunded.
Remove the "late fee", "lost item" and "legal action" clauses. ebay automatically opens an unpaid item case after four days. Send payment reminders.
As a collector, don't estimate grade in your title/description. Even with clarifying that it is your opinion, that may give someone ground to stand on if they decide to open a case against you.

I think you are probably hurting your sales with a lot of that and maybe those suggestions will help.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Pillar of the Community
United States
2926 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  12:13 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

More like draconian measures trying to scare buyers with threats of legal action for them following ebay's terms which by the way out-rule yours and that is in the terms you agreed to with ebay.


Well, if that's how you see it, great. Unfortunately, I had a very bad experience with one seller who basically tried to extort me. I didn't budge because he lied. I spoke to several people at ebay about what he was doing, and even after I was reassured by them that he wouldn't be able to leave me negative feedback, he was able to, and I was never able to get it removed - it dropped off my profile after a year. It was after that experience when I invoked my current terms and conditions. ebay doesn't protect sellers at all. I have to do it myself, unfortunately.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2926 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  12:47 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list
Thanks for the constructive criticism, spruett001.

I would offer the immediate payment option on BIN listings, but a lot of my buyers make best offers to me, and we go back and forth on the prices until we agree on a figure. On my listings, I do offer combined discounts if they pay full price, so that's another reason why I don't use the immediate payment option as I do quite often have to send invoices with the promised discounts.

As for the returns policy, my sales have actually gone up since I instituted it. After the one really bad experience, I knew I had to change something. I talked to a few of my friends in the legal profession - also, one of my cousins is a lawyer. I honestly care a lot more about my reputation than my sales. If I lose a few sales because a buyer is "scared off" by my terms and conditions, then great! That's what it is there for. I'd rather not deal with that kind of buyer in the first place. My terms and conditions are there to make sure people who try to abuse the system won't be tempted to. The late fees and legal action clauses give me some protection against these kinds of buyers.

As for grading coins, I've been doing it for over 40 years. While grading is always somewhat subjective, they see the coin and either they agree or disagree with the grade, just like you or I do when we go to the LCS or Coin Show... and decide whether or not to purchase. In all of my time on ebay, I've had exactly two buyers dispute a grade in 800 or so transactions. In the one case, it was the lying buyer mentioned in my response to basebal21's comment above. It was a roll of 1971 Jefferson nickels. He called the coins "culls" when they all graded VG-AU as the description and pictures indicated. None of the coins had any problems. In the other case, it was a toned coin - the only instance I've sold a toned coin on ebay. I don't think I'll be selling another toned coin on there, because, quite honestly, they are not my field of expertise. Fortunately, he only dinged me with a neutral. If you check my feedback, you'll see that everyone else that has bought from me has been very happy with my coins and fast shipping.

Also, I've got a good little group of about ten people who buy from me almost every month - a good little clientele base. I'm enjoying it, and it works for me. It isn't broke, so I'm not going to "fix" it.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  01:30 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list

Quote:
If you check my feedback, you'll see that everyone else that has bought from me has been very happy with my coins and fast shipping.


I did look at your available recent feedback. One thing I noticed is that you have no feedback as a buyer (not recent anyway). I offered those suggestions with the perspective of both seller and buyer, as I sell frequently, but probably buy more. I've certainly encountered problems in both cases that needed to be addressed. That's why I started requiring immediate payment for BINs. I have had several of those that just wasted my time by "buying" and never paying or communicating. It's very frustrating, to be sure.


Quote:
I honestly care a lot more about my reputation than my sales.


As far as offering returns, it helps your reputation to offer 30-day returns. I recently was put on a "probationary period" as a Power Seller and that had to do with not uploading tracking (because of shipping single coins in an envelope) and not offering 30-day returns. So, this area does affect your ebay status/reputation, as I said before.


Quote:
I'm enjoying it, and it works for me. It isn't broke, so I'm not going to "fix" it.


It certainly doesn't seem broken. You sell quite a bit and have a lot of satisfied customers. Remember, though, your Terms may be effective on a personal level for buyers, but ebay would not honor them in a dispute.

That reminds me, I need to get some more coins listed!

P.S. I want neutral/negative feedback to be reinstated for buyers. Some are just stupid, but some are conniving.

In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
Edited by spru
01/24/2018 01:36 am
Moderator
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United States
189969 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I wish to mention that this works to the seller's disadvantage if the buyer is getting multiple small items via BIN.

That is because there is a paypal fee per transaction, in addition to the fee as a percentage of the transaction. In several cases the buyer requested me to wait for an invoice.

You do this by putting everything in a cart and request a new total from the buyer. This is how they apply the multiple items shipping discount.
Good advice. My only experience with ebay is with BIN. I have used the "Add to cart" button instead of "Buy It Now" to buy multiple items from one seller.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2926 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  11:25 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

That reminds me, I need to get some more coins listed!

P.S. I want neutral/negative feedback to be reinstated for buyers. Some are just stupid, but some are conniving.

Me too to both of these!

By the way, I haven't done much buying recently. I have done some unsuccessful bidding though. LOL. Last purchase was when I bought 10 rolls of 2009-P nickels (and got 15 free BU coins thrown in) from a seller in Puerto Rico many months ago and was very happy with the transactions. When you add in my CRH finds and some I got in a trade via a member of another forum, I own almost 500 2009-P nickels now.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Edited by John77
01/24/2018 1:39 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1475 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list
Well, going back to negative feedback, ebay rating system is totally useless without it for both sellers and buyers.

It's the big corporate's scheme to give buyers false sense of security to generate more sales.
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United States
54283 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list

Quote:
ebay automatically opens an unpaid item case after four days. Send payment reminders.
eBay does this only if you have set it up in your seller settings. I have this in mine, and in the last year only two buyers did not pay before ebay sent them the "reminder". One paid, and one never did pay. The one that didn't pay got a "strike" on their account.

On a side note, you can put buyer IDs into an exception to the automatic unpaid item case. This allows those good customers that want to try to win auctions ending more than four days apart without being bothered by ebay to pay up.

Many buyers don't know that they can put BIN items into their cart to avoid having to pay for each item separately due to the immediate payment requirement (if the seller has that activated). I don't use immediate payment required on my BIN listings but if I did, I might include a sentence such as "If you want to purchase several items at once, put them into your cart first, then pay when you are finished shopping."

I have been selling on ebay on and off since 1999, and I have found that the less "rules" you put into your listing the better.

Adding rules that are already part of ebay's normal operations is just redundant and unnecessary (such as, "if you bid and win, you are expected to pay.")

Adding rules that are not part of ebay's normal operations is just going to scare away potential buyers and can not be enforced. You might get some to comply, but you are probably losing more sales than you know by having such rules.

EDIT: This reminded me of a seller many years ago that had this in their terms of sale: "If you leave me a false negative feedback, you agree that you are legally bound to pay me $2,000 as damages to my reputation".
Edited by nss-52
01/24/2018 1:05 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2926 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2018  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

Well, going back to negative feedback, ebay rating system is totally useless without it for both sellers and buyers.


Totally agree. I honestly don't care about my feedback score as long as there are no negative comments left for me.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1314 Posts
 Posted 01/30/2018  12:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chute72 to your friends list
I've encountered a few unusual circumstances on ebay, and I've found that their live operators were very helpful.
Most time it was just a matter of communications and not bad intentions.
Whoever is responsible for the live operator gets my sincere thanks.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2926 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2018  01:26 am  Show Profile   Check John77's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list

Quote:

I've encountered a few unusual circumstances on ebay, and I've found that their live operators were very helpful.
Most time it was just a matter of communications and not bad intentions.
Whoever is responsible for the live operator gets my sincere thanks.

I've had just the opposite experience with their operators. Most of them just read off a script as do their "supervisors" in the Philippines. The only times I've had any successful interactions is when I've reached reps in their US centers. 98% of the time, you get routed to the Philippines.
CRH Nickeloholic. 1,600,000 nickels searched in eight years! Have found FOUR complete Jefferson sets!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts
 Posted 01/31/2018  02:01 am  Show Profile   Check spru's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add spru to your friends list
I have never called ebay nor spoken to Reps. That doesn't mean I haven't had issues to resolve, though.

ebay lays down the base (and final) rules. Beyond that, I have only used personal contact with the buyer/seller.

I don't remember selecting to have unpaid item cases automatically opened, but I would if I hadn't. It's amazing how many times I've sold something and the buyer only paid the same day the case was opened. Go figure...and didn't complain about anything!

Some never pay and all I do is watch it happen. They get some sort of negative thing (which probably doesn't exist, anyway) and I lose nothing...except about a week's time that the item isn't available for sale.

In the end, I always sell that stuff again: sometimes for a bit less, sometimes the same and sometimes more.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list
Sellers aren't stupid. We check buyer feedback, even if it is classed as positive with green pixels, and if it says non-payer or slow payer or makes a lot of returns, we can cancel the sale and block him. Just leave positive feedback and say what you need to say in the comments. They won't be able to do anything about it and everyone will know what happened.

BTW, my terms are 14 day and virtually no one returns anything except under conditions where a no return policy wouldn't have helped me anyway. I remember when ebay forced Top Sellers to go to 30 day return and everyone was saying they would take coins to coin shows and try to sell them and return the rest. It never happened and nobody talks about it anymore.
CCF Advertiser
United States
1533 Posts
 Posted 02/01/2018  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Andrew99 to your friends list

Quote:
They get some sort of negative thing (which probably doesn't exist, anyway)


No actually, they get a "strike" which you can't see. I think its called that because three strikes and you're out.
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