Canadian Large Cent 1893 Dp9

Great pic's . thx for the easy reference

I have three triple punched 9's Phil310 2 of them have double punched3's and the third one is a normal 3, I had a fourth one but let a member of this forum have it a few years back it had a die crack on obverse by DEI I can't remember what the 3 looked like. I only noticed this last night when getting a order ready for PCGS I looked at all my 1893's and found the one with no double 3 its going with PCGS order the first coin in this post is also one I found in my hoard that I had never noticed before.
Here's some pictures of the three TP9's that I have left.
The first picture of the date is the 3 with no doubling on it. The only area that I see a little difference is @ stem on leaf 5 looks like they done repair worked on that area

Thank you papeldog!

Those sure do look like two different dies. That marker at the stem of leaf 5 is a good one to look for. I'll have to take another look at mine.

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After checking out my triple punch 9's, all of mine with both obverses have the same reverse, like the one of yours without the repair to the stem of leaf 5. I noticed there is a circular die crack going up through the right bottom of leaf 5 on those. I can see it on your photos also.

I don't see the die crack on your photos of the other reverse with the repair to the stem.

Good observation on the stem 5 difference papeldog!

Phil310 and Okie the coin with repair to stem of leaf 5 has no die crack coming up through the bottom of leaf, but at the top slightly to the left there is a small die crack running parallel with stem 4 towards the rim traces at leaf 1 and a different one running up through leaves 4+3 like you mention different die crack

OK, I have looked at mine and need to correct some of what I posted before. First, let's get the terminology straight so there is no confusion. When we wrote the 2011 Charlton, we only included 2 RP'd 1893's The one on p336 we named "triple punched 9" (it is really quad punched, but let's do away with that quad name). PCGS has recognized the same coin that is in Charlton(p336) as a TP9. I have 4 of them .. 2 with a RP'd 3(underpunch showing upper right) and 2 of them have no RP 3. However, the inability to see the underpunch may be due to either die or coin wear. All 4 of them have the same Obverse, with a huge D/C between Dei & Gratia, as well as a huge D/C through the right side of the last A in Canada. None of my 4 have the re-engraved stem 5 where the stem meets the vine that Papeldog shows in his photo above. All 4 of mine don't show the "plastered look" of papeldog's but, rather, show kind of a tiny split in the leaf stem. Let's name the TP with the "normal stem 5" as a TP#1 and the one that Papeldog's shows as TP#2. I don't know what to name the supposed difference between the RP'd 3 and the normal 3. I think that we have to have someone with high-grade examples to see if they ALL had a RP'd 3 and die/coin wear made it hard to see on the others.

I have 17 of the "DP 9's", as shown on p337 of the 2011 Charlton. The 9 shows easily, the underpunch being almost totally off the left of the knob, as well as a slight underpunch left and lower left outside of the upper loop. Of those 17, 15 have no DP'd 3 and 2 that do upper right .. again, the lack of seeing the underpunch may be due to die or coin wear. None of the 17 have the repaired stem at 5 like papeldog's. It DOES, however have an easily recognized repair of stem 5 as it meets the leaf, not where it meets the vine (as papeldogs). Let's call this variety DP#1.

I have (of the 3 that I had) a DP9 with the underpunch showing under and to the left of the knob and transiting further to the right under the lower arc... you can also see a slight underpunch low and right. It appears to have a RP'd 3 as well. I don't know about the other 2 that I had and sold to a fellow collector almost 10 years ago. It also does not have papeldog's example of the repair at the stem/vine junction. This one is identical to C-V's post above, where he says it is the "scarcer of the 2" .. let's name that one a "type 2". I agree that it's the much more difficult to find of the 2 DP'd 9 types, based upon what I've found in 20 years of looking.

When you are looking for Obv types for all these R/P'd 9 on the Reverse, the huge D/C's for the triple punch show up together, so they must have started at the same time (and the one at the last A in Canada is on the right side). There is another Obv that has a huge Canada D/C on the left side of the last A. There are also some vanilla's that have big D/C's in Regina and Victoria.

To sum this all up, it looks like there may be 2 (maybe 3 counting RP'd 3's) of the triple punch, with the type 2 having papeldog's repair of stem 5. We have 2 types of the DP9, with type 1 being the underpunch showing almost entirely to the left side of the knob and outside left & lwer left of the upper loop. The type 2 will be like C-V's post that started the thread, with the underpunch more completely under the lower loop and much much longer than the type 1. Well, my back is sore from bending over the microscope. I hope that this solidifies the 1893 repunchings that are easily visible and standardizes the terminology. I will no longer use quad or QP for the more dramatic of the repunches, even though it's easily seen to be 4.

I think that your above photo of the anomaly at the stem 5 junction is PMD that started with a ding at the denticle and carried excess metal through the field and then gouged out part of the stem.

I would have to agree with Okie on that.



To add to the good information that Okie posted above, the TP9 that Okie labeled #1 (without the repair at stem 5) is paired with two different obverses.

1 - An obverse with a die crack at the N of REGINA, and an additional die crack at the last A of GRATIA in a later state. I believe this obverse was paired with Okies reverse #1 before the second obverse listed below.

2 - The one Okie describes with the die crack between DEI and GRATIA, and at the last A of CANADA.



Below are a full side photo and photos of the die cracks on the first obverse.