Rare 1574 Paper Siege Coin Severely Damaged By PCGS During Certification

While maybe not a surprise, I see the OPs point.
This is a case where faith in a company's reputation (earned or not) needs to be questioned before blindly following their policies. Companies can easily use wording to their advantage and often do.

There is absolutely no way, if the quality control is actually what they claim, that this coin could have been returned to the OP without lettign him know what happened.

I guess it was on youtube where I saw a video of the oh-so-careful manner taken at every step in the slabbing process. I remember seeing where make sure to show how they examined the coin/slab at every step to make sure the serial numbers checked out and everything was OK.

The proof is in the slabbed, PCGS-broken coin.

Its ridiculous to think they could not even take the testimony of one of their own board members b/c of official procedure. They obviously must be aware life does not always follow official procedure and so can use :official procedure" to their own advantage if they desire. If sincere in their desires they would be willing to have someone follow up on this as a special case. After all - if they have only handled three of these in past years, they sure should not be afraid of having to make specials cases a habit.

I would think a professional company that actually cares about numismatics as much as they claim would also be obsessed in making sure this horrible lack of professionalism with a historic artifact with which they were entrusted was made right. They do care about their reputation, but also know they have a large enough following that they can afford not to make this right with the customer who should be the one "who is always right."

I applaud the op for using some common sense in knowing that companies (no matter which ones in what area of life) say nice things, but reality might be a whole lot different. When the situation comes out different, they are also good at finding ways to get around them looking like the bad guy to their loyal masses.

I am sure PCGS's own pics they took of the coin being unbroken before damage, and pics of the damaged coin being in a PCGS-touted tamper proof slab would hold up as evidence in court. But PCGS's policy demands more. Sad.

Granted - this is only ONE PCGS mess up. But a company only handling three of a specific item in all those years should have made their "professionals" understand to be EXTRA careful - if they even knew how rare this coin is.

OP, why didn't you send it to NGC?

Hopefully one of these days, there is a show near you that you can attend and have them make it right.

. The OP has no one to blame but himself for why he got no compensation. Refusing to return the coin meant that he wouldn't get a pay out as several of us tried to warn him of that. They only do payouts when the grade is lowered. If the grade is lowered or becomes details graded they have to change the label or at the very least make sure the coin is raw again so they don't make multiple payouts on the same coin or hose a future buyer by saying oh sorry a previous owner already got a payout on this so you can't.

It's not sad, it's not bad customer service, it's not them not caring about their work like you keep implying, it's a 100 percent perfectly reasonable and logical position to have. It's essentially doing a warranty claim and every company there is makes you send the initial item back for warranty claims. You don't get to just tell Microsoft, or Samsung, or Apple , or the car dealer ect to just trust you and give you a refund but you won't be returning the initial item for them to inspect. Even Amazon with the most liberal policies of any company requires the items returned. They all have to do it as a way to prevent fraud. If PCGS did payouts without getting the coins back you can bet they would be making countless payouts on the same coins as people passed them around and turned getting payouts into a full time job. It's unreasonable to expect to get a check and have the holder stay exactly the same.

The rep went above and beyond trying to figure out a compromise and even offered to refund the grading fees before getting it back, but if someone won't return a coin to them there's nothing more they can do about it. You can't bash a company for not making something right when they were never given a chance to make things right.

I'm not at all. I fully expect them to make a payment if the coin was returned to them. If it's not returned there's nothing they can do about giving a payment nor should they




Difference is you weren't asking for a payment from the autoshop. If you expect a company to pay up for something or refund or fix something they have every right to require the item back or to inspect it again.




The board of experts don't all work there full time. Some are just consultants. Their opinion or letter would certainly carry weight in the payout AFTER they get the coin back. The consultant isn't who decides what an appropriate payout is nor would they have the ability to change the label/regrade it which is the part you are missing.

They HAVE to make sure the label is changed or the coin is raw for a payout. It really is that simple. The only way they can do that is to do it themselves. Given that the consultants name wasn't named either we don't even know if they would be the appropriate one to consult with anyway.




So what happens if they payout on it then the owner sells the coin and someone else sends it in for review expecting a payout as well? Their satisfaction doesn't matter or is PCGS supposed to pay out multiple times while they sue for the initial payout back? That's exactly why coins must be returned for a payout. It's in the contracts that were agreed too and no they should never make an exception to that.

If you want a payout you have to follow the contractual agreements to it for the right people to see if and them to know that the problem is solved and they won't have to payout on the same mistake multiple times. If someone doesn't want to use them anymore that's fine but they don't get to expect to keep the coin as is while getting money as well.

PCGS made perfectly reasonable requests and showed that they were more than willing to try and make the situation right if they were given the chance too. They attempted to compromise on the situation as well but were never given the chance to. They handled the situation in a perfectly logical reasonable manner which is all that can be asked of a company.




No it's not and their handling of the situation was nothing but professional. It is unreasonable to expect money and to keep the coin as is. Every coin ends up back on the market at some point unless its destroyed, the only thing that would damage their reputation is giving out payouts without fixing the mistake. If people who don't like them in the first place want to try and find fault with the request to be able to make it right then they will as they do in everything they do, people who have worked in customer service situations before as well as many others will realize that sometimes all you can do as a business is make the offer to make something right and whether or not the customer takes you up on it is on them.

Trusted members of the board could verify the coin is damaged inside the holder, and as you said, their opinion would carry weight.

I was going to say they could make a special case in this incident, but your also valid point of:



also makes a LOT of sense. A company should only have to pay once for a mistake

Also:

.
A signed pact IS a signed pact. I have not read the contract myself so cannot make comment.

I guess since this is such an unusual case, likely never to be duplicated, they could make an exception. Especially since it would not be all that hard to go the extra mile since the OP has easy access to one of their own officials, but again, as you said - what about the next owner of the slab?

The OP is sure in a pickle with this one!

I think in this situation, if it was me, I would ask PCGS if I could take the coin to the board member, have him verify its broken in the slab, with plenty of pics and video taken by the Board member, and then cut off the top off the labeled portion of the slab with a bandsaw and destry it right there on film so PCGS could ever again have to pay for it.

I think I would also sell this idea to PCGS as a good way of (legitimately) touting their PR for such a unique case. Everyone would win.

Of course its all hypothetical, and again I think the rep on the phone was polite and trying what he could do while having his hands tied by policy. Maybe he would have taken an idea this or asked his superiors to consider it?




Not at all. When I have accidentally damaged something that belongs to someone else, I do no expect to own the broken when I make restitution. I am not paying for the broken item, I am paying for my own carelessness by giving the owner the ability to replace (if possible) the item.

And in this case the coin, already being broken, it would not help or hurt PCGS to keep it if the slab's label and serial number were destroyed. The only trace back to it could be the pics PCGS has on their site in which they could relay the entire story (good PR!) and blot out the label info.



Teaching is one of the most customer service related jobs I have ever had (although I have held positions with direct customer service)... think "parents!". It takes a good troubleshooter to find a way for everyone come out on top when parents ask for conferences concerning their children.

I find it normally just takes patience and the ability to swallow personal desire/pride, listen intently and cognitively, put yourself into the shoes of the other guy, and It turns out there are few irrational people when you show you are willing to go the extra mile. I never had a parent conference that did not have a positive ending except one. The father could not understand why his son's test paper was lost - and it was a substitute teacher who had administered/collected/filed the test! Even after he found out I was not in the school building at all the day of the test,and that the office assigns the subs, he just had a mental block saying I should have been more careful in collecting the tests! Oh well!

carb. is an abbreviation for carburetor not carbohydrate. Some kind of thingy under the hood hooked up to the engine. Probably could Google it.

Does that help?

Well, thanks, but I do know what a carburetor is and that it is what was being referenced. The difference between brands and "4 barrel" or not is what I was unsure of. So, this response fairly settles it:



Thanks, Earle42.




I wasn't calling you out, specifically. The debate got a little heated for a bit and the amount of typos in responses seemed to correlate with the rising tension. Quick-typing...

I do realize that you were a math teacher, Earle42, so you get a pass.

@Spruett



I don't mind owning up to my fault though.

OK though - confession time. The pass you gave me is not valid.

You see, I have taught the entire high school curriculum at one time or other. Math, science, and computer programming became the areas I tended to teach more of.

Had I spent just one more semester in college I would have had a minor in history, math, science, Spanish, English, literature and Bible! But I had marriage on my mind by that time LOL!

I think my editing problem likely have to do with me not actually typing properly and my Postural Othostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS). As I tell people who ask what POTS is, my Dr. once told me it is a legitimate medical excuse to be lazy and stupid.

I do find myself very frustrated at times at what I now miss and make mistakes on since POTS became a part of me.

But it has its advantages! The chronic migraines tend to wipe out short term memory (although ling term seems unaffected for the most part). So I get to watch movies "for the first time" up to four times, read books 3 times while knowing I have never read them before etc.