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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Quote: I never give any of this any thoughts at all. For me they are just coins. All of them, regardless of plating, cladding, toning, etc. If I need one for an Album, I really don't care how it was made, or who made it, or what it is made of. Somebody give this man a tranquilizer . Must be stressing out with no more room for all his coin albums . 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1748 Posts |
Cupronickel clads have held up well. They are basically copper coins, as their copper content is 92 percent. Copper has worked well for coinage for centuries.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
Seeing how poorly Zincolns perform, I am more than happy with CuNi clad, copper alloy or straight CuNi. Getting clad quarters and dimes from the 60s and 70s in change is not uncommon, and they look great after all those years of providing a fluid means of exchange.
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020 In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020 In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Moderator
 Australia
16804 Posts |
One main drawback with the clad coinage, and plated coinage generally, is the lack of recyclability. It's the Mint's job to withdraw damaged and other no-longer-legal-tender coinage and recoup the costs.
Take, say, a bronze coin and damage it so that it is no longer fit for purpose. The mint can take that damaged coin and toss it straight into the scrap bronze bin and melt it down to make new coins. Same for .900 silver, .900 gold and "nickel" cupronickel.
But a clad coin cannot be de-cladded. Melt down a clad coin and you get a lump of 92% copper, 8% nickel (or perhaps less nickel, if the coins were badly worn or the cladding layer was otherwise partially stripped away) which is useless for making either new copper coring or new cupronickel cladding.
Yes, it can be re-refined and re-purified back into useful metals, but not easily - and probably not by a mint-owned facility. Recycled clad coinage will never be turned back into coins again. The recycling loop is not "closed".
This has not so far been a major issue in America, where the economy has been stable enough that a mass recall and remelting of the coinage has not been necessary. Other countries that have used similar cladding technology to make their coins (such as Thailand) have not been so fortunate.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
Quote: One main drawback with the clad coinage, and plated coinage generally, is the lack of recyclability. It's the Mint's job to withdraw damaged and other no-longer-legal-tender coinage and recoup the costs.
Take, say, a bronze coin and damage it so that it is no longer fit for purpose. The mint can take that damaged coin and toss it straight into the scrap bronze bin and melt it down to make new coins. Same for .900 silver, .900 gold and "nickel" cupronickel.
But a clad coin cannot be de-cladded. Melt down a clad coin and you get a lump of 92% copper, 8% nickel (or perhaps less nickel, if the coins were badly worn or the cladding layer was otherwise partially stripped away) which is useless for making either new copper coring or new cupronickel cladding.
Yes, it can be re-refined and re-purified back into useful metals, but not easily - and probably not by a mint-owned facility. Recycled clad coinage will never be turned back into coins again. The recycling loop is not "closed".
This has not so far been a major issue in America, where the economy has been stable enough that a mass recall and remelting of the coinage has not been necessary. Other countries that have used similar cladding technology to make their coins (such as Thailand) have not been so fortunate. Until the last few years the number of clads being recycled has been nominal and it probably isn't worth the cost of shipping the metal to the strip manufacturers. But when clad was introduced they said that one of the advantages of clad was that it could be melted with nickel to make the outside cu/ ni strip for new clads or to make nickels. They also said that nickels could be melted directly to make the cu/ ni strip.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
996 Posts |
I would imagine it is a fairly simple process for those who know how to do it to melt the coins down and separate the metals. I am not by any means a metallurgist but would think they have different weights and properties which would allow the nickel and copper to be separated. Of course you would have to have large quantities to make it worthwhile. Otherwise just melt it into ingots and sell them to scrappers.
In that same vein, is there an alloy that would produce a uniform silver color and similar electrical, striking and wear properties these days to replace clad? I would imagine an alloy would be easier to produce than the clad sandwich and even if the metal cost is slightly higher might reduce the costs involved. I know they spent a boatload to decide that a slight difference in nickel to copper content would work on nickels, dimes and quarters but AFAIK it went nowhere.
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: ...when clad was introduced they said that one of the advantages of clad was that it could be melted with nickel to make the outside cu/ ni strip for new clads or to make nickels. They also said that nickels could be melted directly to make the cu/ ni strip. That makes sense to me. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1795 Posts |
All Interesting Points of View as far as I'm concerned. I cannot disagree with any of it!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote: I would imagine it is a fairly simple process for those who know how to do it to melt the coins down and separate the metals. I am not by any means a metallurgist but would think they have different weights and properties which would allow the nickel and copper to be separated. Actually copper and nickel are almost identical in weight and are very similar chemically. They would be rather difficult to separate cheaply. Quote: In that same vein, is there an alloy that would produce a uniform silver color and similar electrical, striking and wear properties these days to replace clad? Yes, Coppernickel, the same as the 5 cent piece. The clad compositipon came about because they were looking for a replacement that would be difficult or impossible to counterfeit. (Back then coins had significant purchasing power so counterfeiting was a serious concern) Back then the way to bond the coppernickel ingots to the copper ingot before rolling was done by explosive bonding. They actually used shaped charges to bond the layers of metal together. It was felt this would be something the counterfeiters would be unable to do. Later they learned how to do it with surface treatments and high pressure rolling and they were able to dispense with the explosives. Wy they still use clad today I don't know other than it is distinctive, and possibly cheaper than a solid copper nickel alloy. Nickel is more expensive than copper.
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Valued Member
 United States
456 Posts |
N9jig, We must be about the same age. In 1963 when I was five, my dad gave me a big jar full of coins, some Whitman folders, and told me to have at it. I was lucky because there were lots of dimes and quarters, including Mercs and almost slick SLQs in there. I hate clad coins. I hate the designated hitter. I am a curmudgeon.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
996 Posts |
Sharkman;
You re a couple years older, but not much... I too looked through my relative's coins jars over the years and wish I saved a lot more of the crappy old stuff I tossed back. I did hate Clad coins but mellowed a but as I got older The DH is an abomination and should be outlawed and whomever thought it up banished to hang by his, uh... toenails. I have turned into that old guy watching his lawn to make sure the neighbor's dog doesn't poop on it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2270 Posts |
No one hated clad in 1965 more than I did. It simply wrecked coin collecting through a market crash and two date freezes. It also caused all the coins I loved to start disappearing from circulation. Only much later did I realize just how great the transition really was. I inherited my own universe of circulating coinage because no one else collected or cared. Ginger Rapsus' "The US Clad Coinage" 1992 has what I believe is a comprehensive list of the various alloys that were tried. Inco and other companies probably produced other alloys but to my knowledge none were official. Clad has proven exceedingly durable. Many of them are chewed up in circulation because now days they acquire most of their wear in collisions rather than rubbing around in pockets. They can be quite attractive with nice even wear if they were well made. Gems for the early dates were very elusive in the year of issue so most Gems for pre-1982 quarters and dimes come from mint sets.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Edited by cladking 12/13/2018 4:25 pm
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Moderator
 United States
187446 Posts |
Quote: I hate the designated hitter. Quote: The DH is an abomination and should be outlawed and whomever thought it up banished to hang by his, uh... toenails. QFT! 
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Valued Member
United States
392 Posts |
Very interesting. I rarely saw silver in circulation. The older collectors Took all the silver out of circulation before I started collecting so clad coins were It.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1795 Posts |
I saved as much silver as I could and I still collect it when I find it!
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