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PCGS Expanding PL To Everything July 1, 2019

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 21 / Views: 4,602Next Topic Page 2 of 2
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 Posted 06/27/2019  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list
Is PL an impaired proof? Not sure where PL fits in?

KK
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 Posted 06/27/2019  8:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list
Isn't it a designation on a mint state coin that they think has proof-like surfaces?

I think they should have a ML designation, for proof coins that have mint-state like surfaces.
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 Posted 06/27/2019  8:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Here is an example

PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
Edited by jimbucks
06/27/2019 9:03 pm
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 Posted 06/27/2019  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list
We already have matte proofs, mirror proofs, and reverse proofs.

PCGS is doing a very good thing here. There are many classic coin series (including gold) which have prooflike contrast and reflective fields, but cannot be considered "PL" just because PCGS did not allow them to be attributed as PL. If you look through old high-end auction catalogs, you will find many coins other than Morgans that had "prooflike" in their descriptions.

The "prooflike" appearance is often a result of fresh die pairs being used, and the more coins those dies strike, the less prooflike they tend to get. But that's not always the case -- with Morgans, for example, worn dies were sometimes polished to remove clash marks and abrasions, resulting in prooflike surfaces on coins that would otherwise show features of later die states such as cracks and deep clashes that won't polish out.

Proof itself refers to the method of striking, not the surfaces of the coin, so there are many Proof issues with MS-like surfaces; if they show signs of actually entering circulation they become "impaired" proofs and receive AU or lower grades, but they're still Proof strikes.

This will be beneficial for gold collectors and collectors of series such as the Liberty Seated, Barber, and especially Mercury/Walking Liberty coins, which previously have been unable or very rarely able to achieve PL designations even in MS66 and MS67 grades that show clear prooflike elements. It also has the (good or bad) side effect of getting collectors who own non-designated coins which they consider Prooflike to resubmit their coins for a shot at the new designation. I don't believe NGC currently offers what PCGS is about to start doing, so it might even draw in some reholders from NGC, ANACS and IGC for a PCGS PL holder.

World coin collectors will also benefit as previously PL was not available or very rarely available on many popular world coin series such as German States thalers and aerlier Central/South American crown-size coins (Bolivares, Reis, Dineros, Pesos, Soles, Reales, etc.)

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 Posted 06/29/2019  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list
So PL is one step up from MS?...MS what? Ridiculous!!!

KK
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 Posted 06/29/2019  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:
So PL is one step up from MS?...MS what? Ridiculous!


As nicely as I can say it, you really need to do some research on this. Examples have been posted, links have been posted, it's time for you to put in some effort. Calling it ridiculous is very uneducated
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 Posted 06/30/2019  12:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list
PL is no small thing. Especially on key coins and for registry sets.

I don't even want to mention how much I paid for a NGC 65 PL Isabella Quarter for my Classic Commemorative set. But I love it every time I see it.
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 Posted 06/30/2019  12:45 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list

Quote:
So PL is one step up from MS?


No, it is applied in addition to Mint State when applicable.

jimbucks posted a good example on a 1893 $10 Gold Eagle above. NGC graded it MS61PL for surfaces with a Proof-Like appearance (PL).
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 Posted 06/30/2019  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list
Regarding PL availability on world coins, NGC has certified Norway 20 Kroner old gold with the designation. I know because I have one. I suspect they are scarce since I've never seen another one.

Edited by jimbucks
06/30/2019 01:01 am
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 Posted 06/30/2019  05:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Meh, just another way for them to get revenue through more regrades. I have an AU DMPL dollar in an ANACS holder (small old white), it's toned very dark now, but when I first picked it up it was spectacular, though a bit hairlined. Can't remember the date offhand, but it's an 1890's dated New Orleans, generally a really rare coin to find in DMPL.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
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 Posted 06/30/2019  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add edweather to your friends list
I like it.
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 Posted 06/30/2019  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list

Quote:
I have an AU DMPL dollar in an ANACS holder (small old white), it's toned very dark now, but when I first picked it up it was spectacular, though a bit hairlined. Can't remember the date offhand, but it's an 1890's dated New Orleans, generally a really rare coin to find in DMPL.


Any AU coin with a DMPL designation would be really rare. If you have or can get a picture of it would be really cool to see it.
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 Posted 06/30/2019  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Morgan to your friends list

Quote:
Any AU coin with a DMPL designation would be really rare. If you have or can get a picture of it would be really cool to see it.


I have a Morgan that I think would qualify for PL. It's an 1880 in AU58. The fields are highly reflective and mirror-like.

PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019

Link to TrueView™
http://images.PCGS.com/TrueView/84324040


Quote:
Is PL an impaired proof? Not sure where PL fits in?

KK


Quote:
So PL is one step up from MS?...MS what? Ridiculous!

KK



Allow me to show you a good example of the difference and why it matters to me and many others. I present a pair of 2019 P&D Kennedy half dollars. The Philly issue is a typical, MS business strike. The Denver is a different animal altogether. It looks markedly different. The coin is super brilliant with a glossy finish, like liquid metal. The PL Denver issues for 2019 remind me of the SMS coins of the late 1960s Special Mint sets. I LOVE the liquid metal look of those "hybrid" coins. Check out the difference:

PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019

Here they are under the Canon. The PL Denver KHD was tricky to light. It's so darn reflective that I had to use 3 layers of diffusion to tone down the brightness. Even then, it still had that glow effect that I'm particularly fond of. With my non-axial lighting setup, PL coins always turn out dark with white highlights. Even TrueViews for PL 2019-Ds are very dark.

PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019
PCGS-Expanding-PL-To-Everything-July-1,-2019

Here's the link for the TrueView image of my 2019-D PCGS MS67+PL. Love this coin. It's the plate image on CoinFacts too- nice!

https://www.PCGS.com/coinfacts/coin...pl/704876/67

Edited by Darth Morgan
06/30/2019 7:55 pm
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 Posted 06/30/2019  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list

Quote:
Any AU coin with a DMPL designation would be really rare. If you have or can get a picture of it would be really cool to see it.


That's why I picked it up. Next time I go to the bank deposit box, I'll try and remember to pull it out for a photo session, mind you it sure didn't look as nice as it did when I got, from the last time I saw it, the toning was going very dark brown, and covering the coin, but the DMPL designation was surprising to me, I had just read Dox's book and Highfill's encyclopedia so was very interested in DMPL dollars that had low known quantities, grading was a pretty new thing, this was around mid 80's so PCGS & NGC had just started up. Population reports weren't even a thing yet, back then.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 06/30/2019  10:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list

Quote:

I have a Morgan that I think would qualify for PL. It's an 1880 in AU58. The fields are highly reflective and mirror-like.


In the past PCGS wouldn't give PL to anything AU or lower. I'm not sure if that's going to change tomorrow or not but it sounds like it might as it really would just impact 58s
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