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 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,988 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5239 Posts |
Grapes, my only answer is this, they were in such a hurry to get the new half dollars minted they may have cut corners on these dies to keep up with production?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7068 Posts |
Don't you think, in order to get the lower serif on the "I" ,quite abit of metal must be removed from the field in order to make the field look flat and uniformly level? Also on the hair wouldn't the skull look lop-sided? Just my thought or questioning...  Edided: spelling Edited by Greasy Fingers
10/15/2019 8:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5239 Posts |
As far as the hair you are only talking about smoothing the die about half the thickness of a human hair. You would not have to do anything to the field other than create a very slight triangular cut into the die face creating the serif. Remember, the die face is incused on the die, it is not raised on the die face itself. That theory could only work on working dies, Not on the Master hub.
Edited by Jim0815
10/15/2019 9:43 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7068 Posts |
True to that Jim, I guess my brain is not firing on all cylinders tonight..(many might say most nights)...  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Edited by coop
10/16/2019 01:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5239 Posts |
Coop, I know what a AH and it's markers look like. That's not what I'm getting at. My point being, this notion in all fairness isn't too far fetched. Take a look at the 44 Lincoln Cent. A lot of those were minted with a retooled die. Granted a blind man on a fast horse could spot the difference. Move twenty years ahead of that and technology advances. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8938 Posts |
Wait there was a retooled 1944 LWC die? When did this happen. How am I just hearing for this? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2376 Posts |
The 1944 example isn't a retooled die.
When the 44 was engraved into the master Hub the resulting job looks like doubling. All 1944 cents will show this to some extent . The die state of the individual working dies and working Hubs will affect the amount of engraving doubling that is seen.
Edit
Should have said Die instead of Hub
Edited by stoneman227
10/16/2019 09:28 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5239 Posts |
I very well may be wrong here but if I'm not mistaken they called it a retouched die. The nose of the first four on some 1944's show this.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Error-Ref.com: http://www.error-ref.com/?s=1944+cent+Quote:The doubling commonly seen on the last two digits of the 1944 Lincoln Cent was long thought to be the result of master die doubling. This determination was changed when it became apparent that the last two digits were engraved into the master die of that year, rather than punched-in. The doubling would therefore have to be the result of re-touching the last two digits. The images above show extra serifs at the bottom of the last two digits ("44") as well as notching at various location. As the master die transfers its design to a succession of working hubs, these faults became less distinct over time. The image above and to the right shows the gradual fading of those errant marks. Also note this section on the same area: http://www.error-ref.com/retouching_the_date/Also on other dies: http://www.error-ref.com/?s=Retouch...gn+elements+Edited by coop
10/16/2019 09:39 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2376 Posts |
From the LCR Glossary
Engraving Doubling Master hubswere usually made without the last 1 or 2 digits of the date on them, so that they could be used over again in subsequent years. This means that the final digit or 2 of the date had to be engraved into the master die after it was made. This engraving of the digits often showed inconsistencies which often resembles doubling of those digits. Just a few of the more noticeable years of this are 1960 small date on the 6, 1965 on the 5, 1973 on the 3, 1940 on the 4, 1941 on the 4, and 1944 on the 44. Photo illustrations of these can be seen Here.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
I checked PCGS for lmages of the half dollars and noticed that the early die states normally have what you are seeing as wrinkles (to me, they like fingerprints but aren't) they are there. As the dies age, then they go away. So they are normal.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2558 Posts |
Coop did it again. EDS. Good post!
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Valued Member
United States
463 Posts |
Very interesting theory and I would've probably been on board with it until my man Coop presented all of his facts and reasonably made some good points from his perspective. Coop gets an MS-70 grade for his knowledge and willingness to share it with others.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
Here is a set of 6 images showing the fading process:  These are all 1964-D Halves. |
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First Page
Posted 10/15/2019 8:07 pm
