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 Replies: 21 / Views: 3,749 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
My first impression is that it is real with mild corrosion.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3848 Posts |
I added more images with different angles and a couple of close ups.
One suspicion that the second coin dealer did not like is the unevenness and "extra metal" in some small areas of the coin. An example is around the date. This could be the effect of the corrosion and conservation.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
21610 Posts |
I have my suspicions on this one but I will wait to see if
there are other more expert opinions than mine.
It is not an 8 over 7 just to eliminate that.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
 with condor101 I think it's real as well, not a super attractive specimen but real. Quote:
You can see it on the second image. To be fair there were only the first four images when I asked that was added after the fact I asked about it. I do see the fraction bar now. I can't quite tell the Sheldon # I thought 168 or `69 but I'm not convinced. Still think it's a real coin, not counterfeit. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Definitely 168, the die crack through the top of AMERICA is distinctive enough to identify the reverse and that rev is paired with three obverses, two of which have type I hair and large 8's. and 168 that has type II hair and a small 8.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
Thanks for the confirmation Gary! I'm getting a little better at discerning out the features for attributing these, it's only taken about 5 years so far to get to where I don't feel so out of place trying at all.
Lots of looking at auction catalogs has really helped, can't wait for the world to get back to some sort of normalcy so I can start looking at them in person and real life again.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Thanks for the info. The ebay advertisement did not specify any specific information like the die pair. This is my first somewhat "quality" large cent that I took a chance on. I looked up each Sheldon variety for 1798 and compared mine with images on the internet. The T in CENT has a leaf near it. This one has the leaf almost touching the serif of the T, and the overall style of the obverse and reverse led me to believe it is the S-168. I should probably invest in Penny Whimsy by Sheldon. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
"Penny Whimsy" by Sheldon is okay as a read, but no photos. IT's the start of most collectors decent into madness, I mean collecting old coppers. The best large cent references are the Noyes book set (6 Volumes), but that is really expensive like $600 expensive. There are some other goodies that may help. The Heritage Walter Husak Catalog and the Goldberg Auctions Dan Holmes set of catalogs, great photos and all the varieties. Both sets are available for free at Newman Numismatic Portal as PDF or just viewable online references. Here you go (links)... Walter Husak (starts on page 434) When getting this physical copy look for the special Husak only catalog, each coin get's a full page for the photo. My good friend Mark wrote this catalog and I think it's one of the all time best coin catalogs ever produced. https://archive.org/details/HaSale4...433/mode/2upDan Holmes catalogs... Pt. #1 https://archive.org/details/danholm...lect0001iralPt. #2 https://archive.org/details/danholm...lect0002iralPt. #3 http://images.goldbergauctions.com/...ng=1&sale=60Pt. #4 http://images.goldbergauctions.com/...le=62&lang=1The last 2 Holmes catalogs are from the Goldberg site and not on the Newman Portal for some reason. I have them all in PDFs but I think I had to locate the last two sales elsewhere, though I can't remember, maybe Goldberg's old site had them? Don't over look other catalogs from Heritage, Goldbergs, and Stack's or the Pennywise Periodicals on NNP as well, even the complete collection of old Chris Victor-McCawley Catalogs and fixed price lists is there now too. Books too, John Wright's most excellent The Cent book a classic middle date reference (one of the very best). https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/530759Newcomb's 3 Large cents books https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/booksbyauthor/1451Lot's of great reference stuff is free and out there if you look, many of the catalogs and books are found on ebay or Abebooks used at fairly decent prices, consider joining the Early American Coppers http://eacs.org/ Well worth the price IMO. Walter Husak is still around and attends most of the conventions he is a super nice guy and approachable. Dan Holmes sadly passed away after his coin auctions in 2016. Have a look around the Books and Software forum here on CCF I've put up lists of books there as well as a few reviews, besides coins I collect US Numismatic literature, and spend probably more on books now days than I do on the coins. If you ever have questions just ask in a forum or you can message me directly through email in my profile. If I can help I will. "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
06/11/2021 4:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2869 Posts |
@jacrispies If you don't want it, do not play games with the seller. It shows him a weak spot. If he does not let you return it, contact ebay Customer Support and tell them a seller has denied you a return on an item. They will take care of it and yu should get your return. It is part of the conditions the seller agreed to as he joined ebay. This should work unless you had the coin for a longer amount of time. Specify cause of return as "Item not as specified". It is true due to high concerns of it being a counterfeit. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
It looks real with lots of problems. A $200 coin if you can find a buyer IMO. Is it worth $40 to get it into a Details slab? If it's real you're stuck with it, and you've spent $40 to be the owner of a Details coin.
It doesn't sound like either of the dealers were excited about it. The seller isn''t worried about authenticity, and obviously isn't excited about getting it back. Over the years these dealers have had a lot of bad pennies turn up, and they move them out at reasonable prices.
I've got a lot of reasonably priced coins like this myself....enjoy it for what it is....
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
06/11/2021 11:49 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Thank you all for the replies.
I paid $124 for it, so for a $200 coin to the right person sounds like a good deal to me. Maybe it will be a coin that I will work on replacing. If I could get that money, or honestly any more money that I paid for it, I would get more for it than the refund.
If it is graded, then it has potential to sell for a few bucks more, because it is authenticated without question.
The seller sent another message today saying "this is thrid time I have told buyer to send toPCGS and have graded. I told buyer that I would pay for PCGS is coin is not real. if PCGS sends back as not real I will refunds". It would be nice to not deal with this seller again.
Overall, it would be nice to be sure that this coin is real. I'd hate to put it in my album, and find out 50 years later that is counterfeit. If it is real, I am happy with it. Questions only came to the surface when that second coin dealer said it was fake.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4692 Posts |
If you are primarily concerned about it being "real", why not just send off to ANACS?
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Valued Member
United States
202 Posts |
I know the authenticity concerns came up after purchasing, but if unsure about a current ebay listing you can use NGC's expert review service. Only costs $5 for a preliminary opinion of authenticity or $10 if you want an estimate of grade as well. https://www.NGCcoin.com/expert-review-ebay/ |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Great ideas. Unfortunately I pitched other ideas to the seller and it seems like PCGS is the only option. Sending it to ANACS would be a good benefit to me, to know that it is genuine. I would eventually crack it anyway so I would rather get a professional opinion at a coin show or wherever than spend money to send it in. I read up on NGC's expert review service. Seems kind of weird how they only say "most likely" or "not likely" geniune. I want confidence! Anyway thanks again for all of the great input. Since nothing significant stood out about this coin being counterfeit, I am happy with that.  Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
9792 Posts |
To jacrispies I don't know where you are located in the USA, but if there is a major show or a top EAC dealer near you then just wait until you go to the show, and show it to them, they most likely would be fine with giving a free opinion on it's authenticity, (I'm 98.9% convinced it's real already), but getting an expert like Greg Hanningan (Florida), Chris Victor-McCawley (Texas), Steve Ellsworth (Tennessee), Jack Beymer (California), etc. to look at it then you're ahead of the game and it won't cost you a dime.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2˘ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
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Replies: 21 / Views: 3,749 |
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First Page
Posted 06/08/2021 5:37 pm
