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 Replies: 60 / Views: 7,948 |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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is not considered cleaning or dipping, because it doesn't affect the original surface of the coin When I wash a new pair of clothes for the first time, maybe the item shrinks a little and maybe the color bleeds a little. The item is relatively unchanged. I don't wash my clothes just to get them wet, I washed it to remove the staining it goes through with my sweat and other foreign biological samples. These things may have leeched into and through the fabric and are no longer surface stains but the process it goes through to get clean is to be washed. This post was initially about surface stains on a coin. These surface stains, as I have been led to understand, is melted nitrate gloves that had got so through contact with acetone. This junk needs to be removed from this coin but instead of just saying that the coin needs to be cleaned and breaking the first rule of the club and the specifics get changed to suit the need which is to, clean the coin without cleaning it. Quite frankly, this ain't winnable. You lot are cleaning your coins and no amount of trying to tell me that you ain't cleaning your coins just because the coin's surface is not altered... a load of hogwash and I don't care what Charlton says! lol This is all in good fun btw, I mean no disrespect to any of you because of my ludacris position. Cut me some slack eh, Canadian and disadvantaged... hahahahaah gag. |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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no expert would be able to tell if a coin had been exposed to acetone. At one point in time the experts laughed at the suggestion that anything not seen with an eye is not a thing that can be. Did you poll all the experts in the world currently whether or not your statement is true or false? It is pretty bold to state firmly what or what not others know and don't... most folks don't even know their own opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
just to be the devil's advocate here..
If the op had just soaked the coin in acetone, then rinsed; then the coin hasn't been cleaned or dipped in the original sense of being cleaned..
When the op stated that he rubbed the hazy spots with acetone and a q tip, then the coin has now been cleaned.
Remember the hazing was on the coin before the op tried removing it with a acetone bath.
at the end of the day it is a bullion coin. and will sell for bullion prices..
edited for typo..
Edited by silverwolf
09/07/2021 3:45 pm
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
6563 Posts |
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at the end of the day it is a bullion coin. and will sell for bullion prices..  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
I'll  one last time  . Quote:
When I wash a new pair of clothes for the first time, maybe the item shrinks a little and maybe the color bleeds a little. The item is relatively unchanged. I don't wash my clothes just to get them wet, I washed it to remove the staining it goes through with my sweat and other foreign biological samples. These things may have leeched into and through the fabric and are no longer surface stains but the process it goes through to get clean is to be washed. Again, apples and oranges. Comparing an absorbent died fiber and a metal are moot. Your comparing the general sense of the word "cleaning" to a long accepted, market acceptable form of "conserving" in the numismatic community. The term "cleaned" can mean a number of things in the numismatic community, but placing in and removing from acetone is not one. I'll say this, I've ran every one of my coins in acetone before I send it off to a TPG and not one has come back cleaned (for that reason anyway). Quote:
Did you poll all the experts in the world currently whether or not your statement is true or false?
It is pretty bold to state firmly what or what not others know and don't... most folks don't even know their own opinion. There's no need to  If one were to soak a coin in acetone and show it to "an expert" and they were not told it was placed in acetone, there would be no way telling. Period. Why? Because it does not alter the surface of the coin. @dant5150. One more point/question and I'll end my rant If you had a coin in your collection that just started showing signs of pvc damage (just typical superficial surface green slime) and you could easily remove this with an acetone soak to prevent further damage.. would you do it? Or leave be and possibly destroy a valuable coin? |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5672 Posts |
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You lot are cleaning your coins and no amount of trying to tell me that you ain't cleaning your coins just because the coin's surface is not altered. If this just comes down to semantics, feel free to call it whatever you want. Just be aware that no one else is concerned about coins being rinsed in acetone. And don't expect that a seller will disclose that, regardless of whether you feel they should. Hopefully, none of your coins will need conservation with acetone in the future! |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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And don't expect that a seller will disclose that, I have come across a few posts here and there concerning the nature of the coin business. The outrage usually surrounds a dishonest dealer selling garbage and how furious we are at these scoundrels ripping us off. The time has come for one of our flock to become a beacon and a shinning example of integrity but none but me thinks they should be completely honest with every potential customer and state that their coin has been dipped multiple times to remove melted nitrate gloves from acetone use. Because of much of the snobbery I have encountered with coin collectors and dealers, I became embarrassed to conclude me one of the fold. Now I see the hypocrisy even more clearly and I guess I am actually rather ashamed of everyone of you who would not disclose up front, the history of your for sale coin as you know it. If one can shovel it, one should be able to deal with it in the same manner without complaining that you just got taken for a ride. "Buyer Beware" is most important and especially here where they confess you will not be told the truth unless you specifically ask for it. Good to know! Thank you! I know who to trust... no one! |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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Just be aware that no one else is concerned about coins being rinsed in acetone Another very bold statement and it is confusing how all of you seem to know what everyone is doing, thinking and saying. With that kind of psychic ability you lot should all be lottery millionaires. As for your statement... yes, I am offended... I guess I am nobody then! Thank you so very *** Edited by Staff | The bad word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing the filter and making the intended word obvious anyway is completely unacceptable. *** much, I love you too. You have been stricken from my Christmas card list for life! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
@dant5150. I'm curious what you're response is to the unanswered question below. Quote:
@dant5150. One more point/question and I'll end my rant
If you had a coin in your collection that just started showing signs of pvc damage (just typical superficial surface green slime) and you could easily remove this with an acetone soak to prevent further damage.. would you do it? Or leave be and possibly destroy a valuable coin? So anyone that has placed a coin in acetone is a "scoundrel"? Does seem a bit extreme if one understands what acetone is truly doing and not doing to the surfaces of the coin, but these are just facts We're not dishonest sellers (speaking for myself) trying to pass something off that it isn't. Not making any tangible differences that are harming the coin and trying to pass it off as anything other. If someone asked me if my coins were placed in acetone I'd freely say yes! As brought up in my above question, you may not always know what is on a coin when you receive it and what slow damage it may be doing to the surfaces. One could even argue you're doing the coin a disservice by not rinsing in acetone as it awaits its slow impending doom of pvc damage while it sits in ones collection for decades unnoticed, before it's too late. But I won't make that argument We've all got our opinions and that's the beauty of it, but collector beware when ignoring a few facts. |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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So anyone that has placed a coin in acetone is a "scoundrel" Absolutely Not! This is nowhere near to what I was getting at here. Something has a stain and it needs to be removed. This is called cleaning but because cleaning is frowned upon by many coin collectors, we try to minimize the negative impact by calling it something else. Bottom Line. Quote:
what slow damage it may be doing to the surfaces. Remove what debris maybe on your coin for whatever reason, that is none of my business but, you have still cleaned it and if I were a potential buyer I would want to know upfront and not have to rely upon a seller sort of desperate for a sale not fully disclosing exactly all they know when I ask them. If I should be able to trust a dealer who tells me some stuff about the coin I am about to purchase when I inquire first but I am not supposed to trust a listing that claims nothing other than BU and uses stock photos? Is the recommendation to actively ensure that my every purchase have the seller questioned first? Is this what you do or are you beyond being taken by bad buy? Quote:
@dant5150. I'm curious what you're response is to the unanswered question below.
At this juncture... I will never personally use acetone nor water nor a microfibre cloth nor the hem of my t-shirt to CLEAN a coin. It is as it is and any art that is not wholeheartedly original, untouched, unaltered, uncleaned by human intervention other than by the original artist is no longer... Original. I can get a wound on my flesh. The flesh may heal but it will have always been at one point, an open wound, it can never not be the un- something that it was. Although I say this, the same be true that I do not own a Gold Coin. I do not own many pieces beyond a couple of bucks but I got a lot of them. These are mostly easily replaced if need be but, yes, I must agree that preserving a $250 plus plus plus coin may make me think differently. Still... I am of the notion that toning is not damage but natural aging and I am all for toning as well as preserving an untoned BU example in a capsule or flip. But, I know someone will say "oranges to apples", as it is with the search for the fountain of youth and a great and less expensive plastic surgeon, we like ourselves and things to be and look like new... I've never held an issue with personally growing old and I like my grey hair as I enjoy many of the imperfections on some coins. If one can look at it from another perspective... a clear, unsmudged fingerprint artistically set might be very eye appealing. |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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what acetone is truly doing and not doing to the surfaces of the coin, It is being used to remove surface debris, a cleanser. Quote:
Your comparing the general sense of the word "cleaning" to a long accepted, market acceptable form of "conserving" in the numismatic community. Yes, just as I had done when the Binary Note subject came up. The terms used maybe the norm and generally accepted as "conservation" but, it is still not entirely accurate technically and is to some, misleading. Quote:
When the op stated that he rubbed the hazy spots with acetone and a q tip, then the coin has now been cleaned. If one is very meticulous and extra cautious to not alter nor touch the surface of a coin while using a q-tip to try and remove surface debris, is it still accepted by the community as being cleaned? |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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but collector beware when ignoring a few facts. Fact. The $500 Lincoln variety 1 cent MS 67 just broken free from the PCGS slab still only buys 1 cent worth of groceries at the grocery store. These... insane prices for our trinkets that we probably invest way too much time and effort in, is only these insane prices for us... no one else is insane enough to trade Five $100 dollar bills for a penny!!! We should be... Free Traders or stop making the postal service rich, one or the other, but, yeah, I know... Profit! The word is almost as shiny as my most useless demonetized other world country currency in the BU condition my dealer assured me it was. |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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showing signs of pvc damage WHAT!!! The dealers I buy my capsules, quandrums and flips and pages from assured me their product is pvc free!!! Are these products claiming to be PVC free lying? My coins get the standard community accepted protection, they should not be receiving PVC damage... no? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
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The dealers I buy my capsules, quandrums and flips and pages from assured me their product is pvc free!!!
Are these products claiming to be PVC free lying? My coins get the standard community accepted protection, they should not be receiving PVC damage... no? As long as you're buying from a reputable dealer, then this should be ok. I was referring to the older flips containing pvc. Majority of better quality modern reputable flips and 2x2's are pvc free and safe for long term storage. Can always ask what brand they stock to be safe  . My apologies to the OP for going on the semi off topic rant! |
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Valued Member
120 Posts |
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a reputable dealer, Is there really such a thing? Quote:
My apologies to the OP for going on the semi off topic rant! ...and, mine as well. To the Community... I am Canuckian, this is my only excuse. Forgive me for challenging your accepted norms but some of them seem, backwards and maybe a little inside out. Quote:
These stains are only noticeable when you scan the coin and zoom in. My initial response was merely supposed to be cheeky and based solely on this statement but then, yeah, things went somewhat sour. But, here's a thought in conclusion which I am still muddling around in my noodle... Acetone is a degreaser. Coin enthusiasts use acetone to remove "foreign organic material", surface debris, dirt and grime from some of their coins to preserve their eye appealing life span. Purportedly, acetone is metal friendly and does not eat away at the metals nor the patina even on any microscopic level. This process of using the degreaser is not considered cleaning because the surface of the coin is unaffected by the acetone. When this process is begun, a surface of a coin has been either affected and obscured by "foreign organic material", surface debris, dirt and or grime, or, the owner wants to ensure no unseen contaminants carry over into the protective device they intend to use. The act of using acetone is a measure to conserve the coin. The outcome is, conservancy and the act is called... uhm, conservancy? The act is called degreasing. Another generally accepted way to describe degreasing is, cleaning. Cleaning a coin is generally frowned upon by collectors and is the first rule in the unwritten handbook of what not to do with your coins. Removing "foreign organic material", surface debris, dirt and or grime on, quite possibly every other item and product in the world is considered, cleaning or washing. Coins are the exception. Why? Answer: to ensure a sale can be made. Bottom line: for profit. Doing this for this reason is a thing very reminiscent to the justifications to tell supposedly little "white lies". Now... let us go back to the first quote I used in this response and ask the question again. |
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Posted 09/07/2021 3:11 pm
