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Is This A 1970-S Small Lincoln Cent?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
869 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindexter to your friends list
jewellge nice find. I'm glad all eyes where on this thread. So this SD didn't fall back into the discard coin bucket .
Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  03:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Bill,

Thanks for all of your help and some of us did nothing but look at the pictures and knew just what this was, check how many stated so from the start, and some did a double look and still others were just not sure till" someone else " confirmed it is a small date, be well, Mike ...
Pillar of the Community
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  04:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list
Yes, of course the coin in question is certainly a small date. Nice find!

Now... tell me how can those two pics that started the thread possibly be from the same coin? There's no way, in my opinion.

The first pic seems -- almost undeniably -- to be large date. Marks on it are not present in the second pic.
Valued Member
United States
193 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jewellge to your friends list
Yes, same coin in all of my pictures.

I initially thought that this was a small date from all of the indicators from the information I was able to find. The diagonal line across the 7 I couldn't see enough detail, and I thought it was a 'small high 7'.

I didn't have the magnification. A dealer once told me "Don't look for trouble", that will change, I'm getting some optical power.

Finally the most perplexing question was "how can I buy this complete 1970 mint set and a 1971 proof set from a coin dealer for under $20?"

This entire thread has shown me that there are members that care, are interested, curious, use logic and expend great effort to help other members learn and enjoy.

Thanks all, and here it is again.



Is-This-A-1970-S-Small-Lincoln-Cent?
Edited by jewellge
01/23/2009 10:55 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list

Quote:
The first pic seems -- almost undeniably -- to be large date. Marks on it are not present in the second pic.

All I can say here is that obviously the first pic is the same coin, where many of the same details are present under careful scrutiny.

I think my pics from page 1 establish it's the same coin--and a small date at that. But I also think jewellge knew that from the start.

I could also add here that photos do not precisely describe physical objects, but only record light reflected off an object. It may sound strange put that way, but it's true. That's one way to account for the apparent discrepancy between 2 photos. Other factors include the data collector (scanner, camera), as well as human perception--which is hardly foolproof and very interpretive. When using photos for analysis, it's important to find ways to reduce interpretive error--that's a discipline one learns. That's something I've learned to a degree from a few photoanalysis projects.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Morgans Dad to your friends list
Bill,

The question I would like to ask is :How many secret operatives( undercover agents fighting for the same cause) were in on this "mission" from the beginning?
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/23/2009  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
You know...this is interesting as long as we're discussing this particular coin, or 1970-S small dates in general.
Since this thread got so much attention, this might be a good opportunity where someone like Chuck can help educate us on how this variety came about?
I have heard it was due to two different hub designs somewhere in the process? Obviously the date is a different design which originated on the hub--is that correct?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2009  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list
Well, I do notice that the first pic has a very weak 'E' in LIBERTY. It's strange how deceiving the '9' in that first picture was.
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2009  1:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
It's strange how deceiving the '9' in that first picture was.


There's an important lesson to be learned about interpreting coin photographs in this thread. Very slight angles can make very large differences in the appearance of the coin. So, if/when you hear me harping about getting the coin and the camera exactly parallel (and that's something I say with nauseating frequency), keep this thread in mind.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
838 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2009  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bibd to your friends list
Yes, absolutely agreed with the importance of good pictures. I had no idea it mattered THIS much.

Moreover, the 1970S small date is a pretty obvious variety. Imagine what a poor picture can do to a more difficult variety!

Anyway, I guess I'm in good company asserting the first pic had a large date '9', since Bill initially agreed with me! I would never have bought that coin even for $1 based on that first picture!

By the way, no offense intended toward the photographer... my pictures are even worse. It's just an odd coincidence how it made that '9' look.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2009  12:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
I've always wondered how many different dies made the small date S mints? Kurts look like two different dies according to the location of the mint marks. Kurts upper image looks closer to the date than the second one. The one I have has a thinner mint mark similar to the first one's location, but weaker in LIBERTY and thinner in the shape of the mint mark. I guess that probably somebody has tried to figure that out before?
Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2009  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list
Ok Kurt here is a an image of my coin with your three images. The kurt 03 needs to be better to get it right. Added Chris 01
Is-This-A-1970-S-Small-Lincoln-Cent?
Edited by coop
03/06/2009 6:36 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2009  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list
Coop, wow...nicely composed!
Your SD is really interesting...I can't recall ever seeing a mm that far W.
The last coin wasn't my shot, but I'll look around for an equivalent.
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2009  11:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
So what was the average die life for a Lincoln? We can see at least 4 different dies, evidenced by Coop's addition. That would speak to the relative population of this type.
Pillar of the Community
United States
869 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2009  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coindexter to your friends list
Vary nice pics everyone. You made me look at my roll of 70-S's again. Hoping I missed one. LOL. With the inside curl of the 9 pointing stright through the seven instead of down makes them easier to identify for me and also as long as there is no damage or to much wear on the date for the zero and seven to be level. Speaking of different dies I have seen quite a few with different size sevens(extending below or equal to the zero) catching my eye. But still being a large date 70-s.
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