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 Replies: 17 / Views: 1,521 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
This would be a good topic to share a couple examples showing the comparison between a couple. Show two examples, with good pics, of the same grade you feel are different, otherwise it's just speculation as to why they revived the grades they did. Collects82 hit the major nail on the head. Strike issues and die conditions are the biggest factors. Take a MS, weakly struck, LDS coin for example. Details will be mushy, and high points will be riddled with planchet marks where metal did not fill the die. At first glance it will appear to be a slider or a low MS at best. Understanding the series is key in examples like this. It's a tough series to grade. Well struck coins are relatively "easy" to grade bc you have a near complete or almost complete coin, showing full devices and details as intended. Grading based on wear and contact marks is a little less subjective. It's the majority of this series that's tough with weak strikes and die issues. IMO, TPG's have been all over the map with this series. Sometimes they'll give a bump for a strong strike when it's deserved, other times not. MS66 examples of weakly struck, mushy, VLDS that shouldn't make it past MS65. Grading is subjective, people make mistakes. Ultimately as Collects82 said, buy the coin, not. It's a fun and sometimes frustrating series! If finding well struck, good eye appeal examples was easy, my registry set would be done!!! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3667 Posts |
@Ty2020b is spot on. He has the top Buff collection I've seen on CCF. I've babbled about this for some time, but the rarest Buffalo out there is any date and mint that meets all of these four criteria:  Matching die pair, with an early die state Strong strike Minimal clashing and die polishing High grade (EF or better) The technical grade is far less important that eye appeal. An eye appeal AU-58 is far more valuable than an ugly UNC. Even for very common dates, coins meeting the four criteria are less than 1% of all coins struck. Figure in survival rates, and there may only be a few hundred of even the most common dates in that box. |
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Valued Member
 Canada
61 Posts |
Quote:This would be a good topic to share a couple examples showing the comparison between a couple. Show two examples, with good pics, of the same grade you feel are different, otherwise it's just speculation as to why they revived the grades they did. Collects82 hit the major nail on the head. Strike issues and die conditions are the biggest factors. Take a MS, weakly struck, LDS coin for example. Details will be mushy, and high points will be riddled with planchet marks where metal did not fill the die. At first glance it will appear to be a slider or a low MS at best. Understanding the series is key in examples like this. It's a tough series to grade. Well struck coins are relatively "easy" to grade bc you have a near complete or almost complete coin, showing full devices and details as intended. Grading based on wear and contact marks is a little less subjective. It's the majority of this series that's tough with weak strikes and die issues. IMO, TPG's have been all over the map with this series. Sometimes they'll give a bump for a strong strike when it's deserved, other times not. MS66 examples of weakly struck, mushy, VLDS that shouldn't make it past MS65. Grading is subjective, people make mistakes. Ultimately as Collects82 said, buy the coin, not. It's a fun and sometimes frustrating series! If finding well struck, good eye appeal examples was easy, my registry set would be done!!! Uploading pictures was my first thought. I need to figure out the picture size and formatting here first...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7078 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts |
Hi guys, Sorry for the delay. I'm slowly starting to figure out the picture formatting on this board. Here is an example. They are different dates. The coin on the right has a much weaker strike and not much if any wear aside from some light surface scratches/marks. These are both graded MS65. Since Strike is one of the main components of grading I would assume due to the lack of detail it would grade lower or perhaps the one on the left is under graded? Either way there seems to be a discrepancy as to my eyes this isn't that close. What am I missing here? Thanks  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
I think systemic strike characteristics are considered when grading coins. For example, for many years during the series, O Mint Morgan dollars were plagued with coins that were not fully struck up. So when grading a coin like an 1889-O Morgan, a poor strike will not inhibit the grade as much as it would if the strike is typically sharp like an 1881-S Morgan. I don't know the typical strike qualities for Buffalo nickels, so I can't say for sure that explains the discrepancy here. But when comparing two coins, it would be better to compare two coins from the exact same year and mint to avoid this. Edited by Adam_E
10/29/2021 10:46 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts |
I think systemic strike characteristics are considered when grading coins. For example, for many years during the series, O Mint Morgan dollars were plagued with coins that were not fully struck up. So when grading a coin like an 1889-O Morgan, a poor strike will not inhibit the grade as much as it would if the strike is typically sharp like an 1881-S Morgan.
I don't know the typical strike qualities for Buffalo nickels, so I can't say for sure that explains the discrepancy here, but when comparing two coins, it would be better to compare two coins from the exact same year and mint to avoid this. I considered this. I thought it might be a factor. That aside if ANY coins existed fully struck or better struck and they constituted a very very small % of coins graded then I would still consider the coin to be over graded. Just grading without the history of how well that date was struck in general... I find this all very interesting. I'm learning loads every day. I'm going to try and locate same date examples. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5683 Posts |
I agree with @Adam_E. The year and mint location are both critical. 1925 is notorious for poorly struck Buffalos, especially in Denver and SF, and you really can't compare those coins with nickels from the late 1930's. Without seeing the reverses, both of those coins seem reasonably graded for the years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
Quote:
That aside if ANY coins existed fully struck or better struck and they constituted a very very small % of coins graded then I would still consider the coin to be over graded. This wont necessarily happen, if there is a coin that is uncharacteristically strong for the year/mint, you would likely see that reflected in it's grade. It might not be in the form of a full point bump, but you might see a plus grade. It's important to remember that grading is a wholistic practice. Strike is a factor in grading, but it isn't the only or the largest factor. |
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Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts |
Ok so what I'm getting is that in some instances TPG's do show some leniency when grading MS examples of specific dates that are known to be poorly struck |
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Valued Member
Canada
61 Posts |
This wont necessarily happen, if there is a coin that is uncharacteristically strong for the year/mint, you would likely see that reflected in it's grade. It might not be in the form of a full point bump, but you might see a plus grade. It's important to remember that grading is a wholistic practice. Strike is a factor in grading, but it isn't the only or the largest factor. Thanks Adam for the explanation. Interesting that on top of 5 main categories there are other factors that may be considered when grading the coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4846 Posts |
Quote: so what I'm getting is that in some instances TPG's do show some leniency when grading MS examples of specific dates that are known to be poorly struck You can put it that way, sure. The opposite is true as well though. The grade of a poorly struck coin that comes from a typically strong year will be inhibited. I would think of it as a grading curve. This also applies to other strike and die characteristics like luster and Die Deterioration. Edited by Adam_E
10/29/2021 11:27 am
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Valued Member
United States
481 Posts |
If I'm not mistaken, the 1937 is a D,3 legged variety
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
18706 Posts |
this is why you need to have good knowledge regarding any series you plan on collecting. Buff's are one of the more challenging series. another is bust half dollars
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Replies: 17 / Views: 1,521 |
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First Page
Posted 10/26/2021 9:00 pm
