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 Replies: 37 / Views: 3,042 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
11920 Posts |
I think many people use proof and specimen interchangeably. Some people believe that there must be a mint record intending the issuance for a proof to exist, but records disappear. Some believe that proofs must be struck at the Philly Mint because only they had the facilities to Mint proofs. Still others believe that branch mint proofs were struck in Philadelphia using mintmarked dies. Everybody has an opinion and there is little consensus. We all have to decide for ourselves I suppose until an idea takes hold and most adhere to that definition.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
I think dave700x's question, why is a proof coin bagmarked? is a valid question. Seems more and more likely that it is mislabeled. We'll see.  IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4472 Posts |
Quote:
The question is was there a valid reason for ANACS to designate this as a proof. On the Morgan's all the dies were made in Philadelphia and shipped to the local branch, and the local branch put in the dates and mint marks for the business strike. For the OP coin to be a branch proof the 1880 Philadelphia proof dies would have had to be shipped to SF and the mint mark added because the local branches did not make dies. I grant you that the OP coin has a bold strike, but the rims do not appear to be from the 1880 proof dies. If the coin was not struck from the 1880 proof dies, it does not matter what ANACS grades the coin as it would not be a proof. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
To think that this coin is the only 1880 S proof known, and that there are no records for it is unlikely. This coin does not have the strike, nor the surface quality of a proof. Looks like a regular business strike.
I am curious to see what ANACS has to say. I hope it is a proof, and that you scored a good price for it.
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
I'm sure ANACS is aware of this coin already being a GEN 7 blue label it has been around a while (about 15 years). It has not been the topic of discussion on VAMworld 2.0 but I'll bet it was on VAMworld 1. If I were you I would contact John Roberts as he is the Morgan dollar expert at ANACS and one of several at VAMworld as well. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1694 Posts |
The face hit doesn't look as bad in the second pic though
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Any feedback from ANACS on this one?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
I haven't heard back but it was thanksgiving after all. I'll give it through this week and maybe follow-up.
I did get the coin in on Saturday but I can't get the pictures to reflect what the coin looks in hand. It is a light yellow with orange along the rims. The devices look frosted with the fields polished to a mirror finish and a lot of chatter. It does look like the fields of the dies were polished to a degree greater than what you would find in an early strike with fresh business strike production dies. The fields have that really reflective polished look that proof Ikes display. But like you pointed out, there are bagmarks which scream: why?
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
The best light set up I've found for proof and proof-like coins is an angle eye ring lamp. I think rmpsrpms did a write up on it if I recall correctly.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2287 Posts |
Very interesting story we must uncover on this one folks. Keep us updated NS  You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
I see the 1880-S is back up on ebay... Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2287 Posts |
That's NS ebay account eh? |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5687 Posts |
It's for sale again, but by the same seller that originally sold it to NS. Must have been returned.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11920 Posts |
Yes, I returned it. I never heard back from ANACS. The label was clearly in error and although I could see that the fields were polished as if it were for specimen strike, I couldn't get past the fact that the coin appeared to have bagmarks. The color was also yellowish which was slightly unattractive and not as pictured.
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS THE MAN IN THE ARENA, Theodore Roosevelt at the Sorbonne Paris on April 23, 1910: " It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." My coin website: https://fairfaxcoins.com |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Darn, so I guess we will never hear the end to this story.  Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Replies: 37 / Views: 3,042 |
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Posted 11/23/2021 11:39 am
