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 Replies: 36 / Views: 4,049 |
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Valued Member
United States
301 Posts |
I will post what ever I feel is right on my opinion and if you can't see Die Deterioration on this coin especially on the R of trust with doubling on both sides of the letter I don't know what to tell you I will state my opinion I will not agree with everybody's opinion if I think what the coin is, and you could keep saying Misinformation as much as you like you apparently got that from foundinrolls I know more then you think I know and I won;t argue with you any further Take another look at the R mine is the correct information misleading somebody thinking they have a doubled die when they don;t.For your information there were three individuals that said it looks like Die Deterioration Doubling and weren't sure it was a doubled die so there well its a fact look at the R in trust.Jazec  Edited by Jazzcoins
02/21/2009 5:44 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
This is not based on opinion...it's based on fact. Nothing about this subject is opinion. Coins are what they are, you can't change them into something they are not. Red is red, saying it's blue only hurts the credibility of the person who's wrong. I've said enough. The truth is obvious.
Thank you for being such a valuable asset here, making others work harder to teach those who want to learn.
Edited by coppercoins
02/21/2009 5:26 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Take another look at the 'R'? Okay, I did. There is die deterioriation on the coin, but it's not Die Deterioration Doubling. It's not EDS, and any coin that's not EDS has some form of Die Deterioration at some stage. This coin is heavily worn AND is LDS. Die Deterioration, however did NOT cause the separation inside the 'R' nor did it cause the extra width to the letters. THAT's all from the doubled die. Die Deterioration on cents works toward the rim because this is bronze and bronze does not chip away at the die like nickel does. Die Deterioration might cause ridging around the sides of the letters on nickel dies, but that DOES NOT happen on cent dies. The little bit of reflection on TOP of the letters in the motto and the missing outside edge of the 7 of the date are from Die Deterioration, but do NOT exhibit the appearance of "doubling" thus it is NOT Die Deterioration Doubling. This still doesn't account for the obvious separation in TRUST, nor does it account for the obvious heavy notch inside the 9. You're mis-stating fact by looking at one small effect on the coin WITHOUT recognizing the obvious. The parts I stated are doubled could NOT be caused by Die Deterioration, which is a simple fact that cannot be educatedly disputed. I saw the images. I have seen dozens of these doubled dies grading from G4 through MS65. As soon as I saw the photos I instantly knew this was the doubled die. There's no disputing a fact, and the fact is that this is a doubled die. I'm done now. |
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Valued Member
 United States
373 Posts |
will that was interesting
i have been doing this for about 8month now and how I have been lucky to find what I have found is I have (and still is) educating myself what to look for . I spent as much time as I can reading and listing and looking at every thing I can about coins,how they are made , and so on so I for sure agree that educate yourself and listen to people that know what they are talking about.i post stuff on here because 1. I'm pretty sure that is what it is(by checking and comparing several times to several sources) or 2. not 100% sure and need help with it .
just like this coin I was pretty sure before I posted it that it was the 1917ddo but there was a doubt because of the wear and wanted other input
so thanks for all the input and education on this one
colleen
still with a lot to learn
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
It is the doubled die. I am 100% certain and can back it up.
Congratulations on the nice find!
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
1361 Posts |
nice find  |
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Valued Member
United States
187 Posts |
Wow very nice circulation pull!
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Jazz, I know the first pic was the OP coin, and I thought it probably was but the DDO but wasn't completely sure. I also know that the second picture was a picture of a better quality 17 DDO. And as soon as I saw it I then knew for sure that the OP coin was the DDO because the features I saw on the OP coin that had me thinking it was the DDO matched exactly with the known DDO. Jazz, you may feel you know a lot about errors, but a very significant amount of the time the identifications you have made on coins posted have been flat out wrong. Now I don't claim to be a expert on errors and I have missed my share of ID's, but my error rate doesn't come close to yours. I feel you really don't know errors as well as you think you do. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2224 Posts |
I have been on this forum for over a year now, and my favorite section is the errors and varieties section. I read all of them, and before I look at all of the expert and not-so-expert opinions I venture a guess on my own as to what the problem is with the coin or what the variety is (if it even is a variety). I'm right about 95% of the time, which I'm pretty proud of! But, if I even have a shadow of a doubt, I just keep my mouth shut, and defer to the people here that really do know. There are plenty of people on here just starting out that don't know a tenth of what I know about V&E's, and they don't know a hundreth of what folks like coppercoins, foundinrolls, biokemist, and conder101 know. I would hate to be the person to misguide them into either thinking what they have is rare when it isn't, or just as bad to have them think what they have isn;t rare when it is. I think I know my varieties, and there are lots of times I want to post my view. But unless I'm 200% sure, I keep my mouth shut.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
It's not SO necessary to 'keep your mouth shut' if you don't know...just say so when you post. Say it's a guess. There's no harm in that.
Posting misinformation as fact, then claiming to be experienced at the subject is detrimental to the progress of the hobby, and is frowned upon by not only those in the know, but by the management of the forum.
Guessing at something and stating so is being a collector sharing in the path to learning the hobby and is encouraged. There aren't many differences in the information, just a huge difference in the delivery.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Quote:
and is frowned upon by not only those in the know, but by the management of the forum. One problem is, it's a greasy thing, morally, to wield the ban-hammer simply because a misinformed member is spouting incorrect information. I'm not comfortable calling someone out on an attribution of a series I'm not competent with, and it would be even worse if a Moderator who was competent with the issue used his position of power to act against someone's opinion. Either way, we damage our credibility. The best management is the least management, and sometimes there are issues which are better handled by peer interaction. It must be noted that I'm speaking individually here, and not reflecting some monolithic consensus of the administrative staff (as if such a thing actually ever exists  ). I'm not stating policy; I'm just speaking out to reinforce Chuck's point that speaking out is not the problem. Opinions are the fuel of lively conversation and the seed of the learning process, as long as the person offering that opinion qualifies it as such. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7629 Posts |
Which is one big reason why I tend to not offer opinions here. Most of the questions asked are regarding the attribution of errors and varieties, which can be answered with fact. All coins are 'something', whether it be normal strikes, damage, errors, varieties...whatever. There's no shady ground, there's no gray area. They are or they are not. If someone knows the facts, they should answer with them, stating they know the facts. If someone doesn't know the facts but still wants to communicate what they think the facts might be, I'm all for that as long as the person states they are not sure but they believe this or that is what it is. It's really simple, but none of this should be based on 'opinion'.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3507 Posts |
I will also go on record as saying that without question, The coin that was originally posted is the doubled die.
Although the coin is worn, the characteristics as outlined by Coppercoins are easy to pick out:-)
I am also going to say that I am glad that I was busy for the past few days:-)
Thanks,
Bill
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
1361 Posts |
Everybody makes mistakes even the most expert in the business. Check this out for sure before this coin was slab more than 1 expert checked it for authenticity. https://goccf.com/t/42413 |
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
The 9 and TRUST shows the doubling pretty good. Great find!
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 36 / Views: 4,049 |
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Posted 02/21/2009 5:23 pm
