| Author |
 Replies: 21 / Views: 1,957 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
6624 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
This is a Pattern coin Judd-1550B the reeds give the Proof away and the color can only be either a copper wash or a copper planchet. The Judd-1551 has the shorter leaf under the R and the Judd-1550A was only produced in normal silver.
I don't remember the grade but it's a proof, probably at least a PR67 A super nice copper example of a almost finalized transitional dollar. I don't think this was one of the Bob Simpson pattern coins, as his were all PCGS graded, so it's likely from the Lemus collection sold by Stack's over several years I'd check but that catalog is in storage. There were a couple of other large pattern collection/sales over the years that have happened, but I can't remember the names of them off hand.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
11/14/2022 3:59 pm
|
|
Valued Member
United States
481 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
Thanks Jerry, I was trying to find it in an old Stack's catalog, but there are so many to go through, they didn't sell the entire Lemus collection under the "Lemus Name" didn't know Heritage handled it as well - it's a super coin for a pattern. Actually just looked a bit closer at your link that is NOT the coin, it's the same pattern but not the same coin, the identifying marks are missing on the True View image and that is a PCGS slabbed coin. but Heritage did sell this exact coin from the Lemus/Queller collection as a NGC PR67RB. https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns-a...bnail-071515Thanks for jogging my memory, the old Stack's catalogs don't always have images tied to the coin I'm looking for. For grins this very coin sold raw at the Stack's sale in December 1987 for $3,960.00 quite the bargain compared to the $23,000 Heritage got for it in January 2009 - almost a $1000 per year increase. Here is the old Stack's sale description and photo, not in color making it really hard to find it.  Don't have the Price Realized for the Elder sale in 1938 but around the estimate of $25.00 is a good guess, likely lower than that by a few dollars, here is his description from the catalog.  "Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440Edited by westcoin
11/14/2022 4:28 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
1273 Posts |
Correct :) it is indeed the Heritage one linked.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
18714 Posts |
I'm not familiar with pattern coins but I do have a question on this one. if its a pattern coin why does it look like quite a bit of wear on both sides. how could a pattern coin not be struck properly or even circulated? was that common?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
@panzaldi Look at the slab images in the Heritage link. It doesn't look like wear in those.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18714 Posts |
Quote:
@panzaldi Look at the slab images in the Heritage link. It doesn't look like wear in those. the link that westcoin posted looks like the OP coin. the link that Jerry posted is a different coin. westcoin link show what appears to be wear and is a match for the OP coin. Am I missing something here? maybe there are more than one pattern coin that was minted. i would not think that a pattern coin would have such a weak strike and the reason for my question but I'm not familiar with them.  |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I'm confused too. The Heritage links that Jerry and westcoin posted are both the same coin. Look at the mark next to M, numerous dots, and the fingerprints, etc - all the same. In 2009 it was in an NGC holder and in 2022 a PCGS slab. The @TobyJ (OP) images are the same as the NGC auction ones, so also the same coin. The images from the NGC sale make it look worn, the PCGS TrueView less so, and the Heritage slab images in that auction doesn't look like any wear to me. Heritage images from 2009 and prior generally stink, IMO.
The Stack's link by numismatic student is a different coin. I'm guessing by "not the same coin", westcoin is talking about some other one he was thinking of?
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3848 Posts |
Quote:
if its a pattern coin why does it look like quite a bit of wear on both sides Not wear, just surface handling discoloration. Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
9796 Posts |
My apologies upon closer study the coin that Jerry posted (Heritage Link PCGS) is the exact same coin as I posted from Heritage (NGC Link) The coin in the Stack's catalog and Elder catalog blurbs are also of the exact same coin. The one linked at Stack's by Numismatic Student is a different coin.
Lighting can play a huge difference in photographing, just moving a light a centimeter or so in any direction can change the look of the coin drastically.
I see no wear the coin is a PR 66/67 and RB color in my opinion. Striking pressures could vary widely in Pattern Coinage, the mint was generally not making them as presentation pieces for collectors, only to see if a certain design would work, the press was likely not adjusted much between various patterns and types of planchets used, hence a strength or weakness in strike could be apparent from coin to coin.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013! ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector. See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440 |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18714 Posts |
Quote:
the press was likely not adjusted much between various patterns and types of planchets used, hence a strength or weakness in strike could be apparent from coin to coin. thanks Westcoin. I'm not familiar how patterns are actually struck and was assuming they are similar to proofs is the main reason I was questioning wear on the coin. strike didnt cross my mind as it was a pattern. interesting |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2286 Posts |
To the noobs that didn't know this was not only a proof, but not worn... don't quit your day job.  You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
18714 Posts |
Quote:
To the noobs that didn't know this was not only a proof, but not worn... don't quit your day job this wasnt needed. when one thinks of a proof or pattern coin you dont think about strike. you assume that the strike is going to be solid especially if you're not familiar with patterns and just trying to learn why it looks that way. we are always learning my friend |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
36884 Posts |
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 21 / Views: 1,957 |
Page 2 of 2
|
First Page
Posted 11/14/2022 3:35 pm
