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1878 Morgan Dollar You Vs NGC

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 Posted 11/14/2022  12:45 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here's one that sold many years ago, a good one to test our skills on. What do you think NGC gave it?





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 Posted 11/14/2022  12:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Neither set of pics shows surface details clearly.
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


the second set of photos are worthless, the first set the color is odd and does not look natural however you might see this on a proof. the denticles, lettering and wreath are solidly struck like you would see on a proof but there is definite wear on the coin especially the eagle and hair. whats confusing is the super clean cheek...so confused.

first thought is impaired proof. grade 55? but I reserve the right to change this if better photos are posted.
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Beautiful coin, but definitely shows signs of wear and handling.
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a Morgan dollar pattern struck in copper.
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS - IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS - IN OMNIBUS CARITAS
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jakes Coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
virtually no contact marks & does appear to be a copper pattern as NS recommended. So I will say PF66
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 Posted 11/14/2022  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add keith12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 11/14/2022  3:35 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a Pattern coin Judd-1550B the reeds give the Proof away and the color can only be either a copper wash or a copper planchet. The Judd-1551 has the shorter leaf under the R and the Judd-1550A was only produced in normal silver.

I don't remember the grade but it's a proof, probably at least a PR67 A super nice copper example of a almost finalized transitional dollar. I don't think this was one of the Bob Simpson pattern coins, as his were all PCGS graded, so it's likely from the Lemus collection sold by Stack's over several years I'd check but that catalog is in storage. There were a couple of other large pattern collection/sales over the years that have happened, but I can't remember the names of them off hand.
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Edited by westcoin
11/14/2022 3:59 pm
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 Posted 11/14/2022  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jerry Picker to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 11/14/2022  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Jerry, I was trying to find it in an old Stack's catalog, but there are so many to go through, they didn't sell the entire Lemus collection under the "Lemus Name" didn't know Heritage handled it as well - it's a super coin for a pattern.

Actually just looked a bit closer at your link that is NOT the coin, it's the same pattern but not the same coin, the identifying marks are missing on the True View image and that is a PCGS slabbed coin. but Heritage did sell this exact coin from the Lemus/Queller collection as a NGC PR67RB.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns-a...bnail-071515

Thanks for jogging my memory, the old Stack's catalogs don't always have images tied to the coin I'm looking for. For grins this very coin sold raw at the Stack's sale in December 1987 for $3,960.00 quite the bargain compared to the $23,000 Heritage got for it in January 2009 - almost a $1000 per year increase.

Here is the old Stack's sale description and photo, not in color making it really hard to find it.


Don't have the Price Realized for the Elder sale in 1938 but around the estimate of $25.00 is a good guess, likely lower than that by a few dollars, here is his description from the catalog.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, Early American Coppers Member (EAC) #6202, Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), Conder Token Collector Club (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS), & Numismatic Bibliomania Society (NBS) Member in good standing, 2 variety collector.

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Edited by westcoin
11/14/2022 4:28 pm
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 Posted 11/16/2022  07:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Correct :) it is indeed the Heritage one linked.
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 Posted 11/16/2022  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not familiar with pattern coins but I do have a question on this one. if its a pattern coin why does it look like quite a bit of wear on both sides. how could a pattern coin not be struck properly or even circulated? was that common?
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 Posted 11/16/2022  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@panzaldi Look at the slab images in the Heritage link. It doesn't look like wear in those.
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 Posted 11/16/2022  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@panzaldi Look at the slab images in the Heritage link. It doesn't look like wear in those.


the link that westcoin posted looks like the OP coin. the link that Jerry posted is a different coin. westcoin link show what appears to be wear and is a match for the OP coin. Am I missing something here? maybe there are more than one pattern coin that was minted.

i would not think that a pattern coin would have such a weak strike and the reason for my question but I'm not familiar with them.
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 Posted 11/16/2022  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm confused too. The Heritage links that Jerry and westcoin posted are both the same coin. Look at the mark next to M, numerous dots, and the fingerprints, etc - all the same. In 2009 it was in an NGC holder and in 2022 a PCGS slab. The @TobyJ (OP) images are the same as the NGC auction ones, so also the same coin. The images from the NGC sale make it look worn, the PCGS TrueView less so, and the Heritage slab images in that auction doesn't look like any wear to me. Heritage images from 2009 and prior generally stink, IMO.

The Stack's link by numismatic student is a different coin. I'm guessing by "not the same coin", westcoin is talking about some other one he was thinking of?
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