1853 California $1 Octagonal Fractiona Gold Thoughts

#numismatics the only attraction for me is finding u.s. coins in Rome. Not much more. I think I'd be a lot better on this coin of it were priced close to melt.

One thing to keep in mind is that spot for US gold is based on standard US gold coin fineness.

The fineness of fractional California gold rarely meets or exceeds that standard. Some of the later issues struggle to assay above 8 kt (aka "333" gold, because gold is 33.3% of the alloy) or even less than that.

Because of the extreme difficulty in quantifying the gold weight of these issues without XRF, they are usually valued only as numismatic items, and do not carry a standard "spot" or "bullion" value.

This is a scarcer variety (either variety is R4); that being said, a damaged (scraped, but not holed) example sold for $225 in 2020, but a PCGS Uncirculated Details/Cleaned example of the same coin sold for $336 at Stacks Bowers in May 2019.

Some of the very rare varieties from the 1870s (R7-R8+) bring mid four figures or more, even when holed: one such holed coin sold for $6k in 2020, but also it's one of only 12 known to exist. The round California Gold dollars are also very collectible and often carry price tags to match.

There is some ongoing debate as to whether or not some of the 1850s-dated octagonal gold $0.25, $0.50, and $1.00 issues were actually issued during that era, or were struck years later and backdated to the 1850s.

I'd put the full retail value around $125-$150 as is. AU details, cleaned/holed. Mostly because demand for the dollar issues is stronger than demand for the smaller 25 cent/50 cent pieces.

FYI -- if you ever run across any examples without an explicit denomination (cents or dollars) on them, they are not authentic. They may be made out of real gold, sometimes high-quality gold at that, but they are replicas or tourist/souvenir/jewelry items.

@paralyse states the case well. Personally, I don't like it even at 10% over melt.

My thoughts run back and forth on this one. I feel the price is reasonable, likely around 120-150 euro, depending on how motivated the seller is and how negotiable we are . . .

Easy to buy, tough to sell.

I know it's easy sometimes to buy something and go "I'll never sell that, why worry?" but then sometimes life changes and you have to do things you weren't planning on. I have had to sell off about 25% of the value of my collection in the last 3 years to cover medical expenses. Some of those coins were very nice and I deeply regret having to sell them, but the fact that they WERE nice made them easier to sell.

That's what I mean when I mention why things might be harder to sell later -- if the day ever comes when you need to trade coins for cold, hard cash, you want coins that you'll likely be able to get your money back on, if not make a profit. Same reason I don't advise people to buy damaged coins in most cases, unless the rarity/scarcity can justify it. If you're dead set on having a fractional gold $1, there are much better examples available for not a lot more money (you can buy the same coin in AU or Uncirculated without a hole in it for maybe an extra 100 euros if you shop around.)

I do understand it's probably quite a bit harder to find fractional gold issues in Italy, though, so that may be one point in favor of buying this particular example.

dont have a lot to add to thi but its a cool historical coin. I would think they are not widely collected except by those interested in these types of non government issued coins. if some collects these in general then I would assume they want the best possible example. selling it could be an issue as stated but finding a better example where you are could be challenge.

if you are considering it I would ask myself. does it fit into my collection as a whole, is it the historical interest or is it something thats just different you dont see all the time and it would interesting to have one.