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 Replies: 20 / Views: 2,353 |
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Pillar of the Community
 Italy
1130 Posts |
@wizened, thanks.
This topic hasn't generated much interest. I did some initial research a few weeks ago, but wasn't interested enough to keep going. I usually use forum responses for additional leads.
The edge on this coin looks like a half hearted good faith effort at a passable fake.
My number one issue is the ping. It's concerning to me that it pinged on the app under the half dollar setting.
I have used it (along with other diagnostics) and it's proven a good tool.
Curious.
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Moderator
 United States
34410 Posts |
@roma, there are a few folks on CCF who know a ton about Spanish coins (besides @hondo of course). I'll move your thread over to the main world forum so that they hopefully notice and comment.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Great coin! This is a, contemporary counterfeit Guadalajara issue, assayer FS. Looks like a Sheffield plate type (silver bonded to a base metal core).
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@threefifty... Thanks... So a circa 1821 fake?
Why do you think it would ping like silver under the half dollar app on Pingcoin?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
25237 Posts |
I've already confessed my ignorance of Pingcoin, but how does it react to a clad Kennedy half dollar? Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Roma,
There are a lot of experts on here (e.g. swamperbob) who I hope will correct me if I misstate anything. I collect contemporary counterfeit 8 reales and can say (as others have noted previously) the "ping" test is not reliable. It will identify obvious base metal counterfeits but not debased silver or Sheffield plate coins.
I'm not sure when portrait types from the War of Independence stopped circulating, but Riddell noted plenty in circulation, including counterfeits, in New Orleans at the time of his Monograph of the Silver Dollar in 1845.
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Thank you both. @hondo...a clad half dollar will not ping under the pre-65 setting; none of the three frequencies will register. A 40% KHD will only register one frequency. A fake Chinese made Morgan will not register any frequency. Some larger .999 coins will register under the dollar setting, no large bronze or clad coins will register. It's an interesting app, but I have also weighed, measured, and louped every coin in addition to using the app. Here's a screen shot for reference.  Edited by Roma2021
06/27/2023 04:02 am
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@threefifty thanks.
I'm curious to hear more about this item.
It is priced at €24 and I may go take a look next week.
The weight is also interesting at 25.3 grams. If the authentic examples are at 27...with that hole plugged and surface unscratched, I imagine this would come in around 26+ grams. Pretty close for quick exchanges.
It's holed and has been scratched up pretty good; if a contemporary counterfeit, someone checked it pretty throughly!
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
Here's this one close up .. I bought it this afternoon. Again, I give the counterfeiter a lot of credit on the edge work.    |
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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts |
Great purchase! This is a nice one, looks like it was struck with hand engraved dies, which I don't think is common for counterfeits of this Guadalajara type.
Edited by threefifty
08/19/2023 3:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Non-GNL-listed and a ex. rare Chihuahua mintmark. Super coin!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
I agree with many of the comments, the coin is a CCC type. Dies are hand cut and very nice. Unrelated to any family established to date.
One comment has to be reinforced. It is that Sheffield Plate counterfeits not only were the perfect color (outer layer was 90% silver and 10% copper) but the coin would ring like a genuine coin. Unlike most counterfeits Sheffield Plate was fully bonded (melted together) and it passed the ring test (to the limits of human hearing). That is why it was so successful at the time. I have never heard of the "pingcoin". It sounds in principle like there should be a detectable difference in frequency between 90% silver alloy solid and a Sheffield Plate, but I would have to test the application before I accepted it.
Roma and anyone else interested - the best tests when looking for counterfeits are weight, specific gravity and XRF analysis. Very few counterfeits pass all three tests. The first two are easy and not expensive at all if you have a decent scale.
I am still surprised by how many collectors still are not using SG testing. Weight divided by volume equals Specific Gravity. It is just that simple.
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Pillar of the Community
Italy
1130 Posts |
@swamper, for me, at least, I feel weight, diamter, ping, and loupe for a 25 euro morgan or Peace dollar are about all the reassurance I need. I haven't spent much on any individual coin. I bought a fake commemorative half dollar very very early on (my second or third coin I think) and two contemporary counterfeits - this one and one other. Is there a reliable online source for counterfeit 8 Reales? This topic interests me; this is also the reason I starting collecting coins - learn, research, hold, touch, discuss, etc. Thanks everyone for your replies! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
GNL#1821-O:A/R: Ga FS-001. Census: 4 known with this specimen. See the Un-Real Counterfeit 8 Reale book by Gurney on Amazon = GNL CCC8R book on page 478 for plate confirmation to this specimen. Congratulations, John Lorenzo Numismatist |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Very nice coin that definitely has the look of a Contemporaneously Circulating Counterfeit. The hand engraved design makes the coin worth much more than the very common (correct looking) counterfeit of the Guadalajara issue.
Is it worth 24 Pounds? Heck ya. I would buy them all day at $30 which is exactly what I did when I had money to invest. At my current age however, I am investing most of my money and efforts into the Cap and Ray series. Much greater variety - just as rare as the Portraits and so far, much less expensive.
I expect the same effect to occur to the C&R types once they are published.
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Posted 06/26/2023 11:59 am
