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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
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I feel that cherry picking from dealers (or other educated and experienced coin handlers) is okay, but to do the same with a novice is not.  And it's a pretty cool experience to help a collector discover they have a scarce variety. I've done that a few times here...and sometimes I tell dealers too. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1840 Posts |
How much time have you spent learning about VAMs? How much time have you spent searching for these coins? You should probably take this into account. Sure you may have paid 25% of what the coin was worth, but the work that went into finding that coin was significant as well. In my opinion the other 75% was money that you earned.
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Moderator
  United States
23522 Posts |
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How much time have you spent learning about VAMs? How much time have you spent searching for these coins? That's a fair point. The coin I purchased was one of maybe 200 I looked at that day, and that was an average day for me. I look at a thousand or two Morgans a week - every single 1878 and 1921 on ebay and a few other places, as well as every single Morgan (of any year) offered by a few high-volume ebay dealers. I probably spend 20 hours a week just on Morgans, and they're not my only numismatic interest. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5953 Posts |
Strange this kind of came up today. I went to the college station coin show today. was only there for about 20 mins as there were only eight tables. A dealer who I have purchased from in the past had a 2 cent coin in his display. Even from a distance I could see it had been cleaned. I could also see a full 'WE' It was marked about XF. $34 CDN  I took a look and asked how much? He knows me so he quoted the $34 from CDN. I complained it had been cleaned and that XF was a little high. He examined the coin closely. He then agreed to drop to $30. I paid $40 and told him to invest in some books. Why? Check out this and see if you can see why I was willing to pay $10 more than he asked and still thought I was getting a great deal on a cleaned coin. The dealer was happy with the extra he made over his purchase price and I was happy with my cheap buy maybe not up to SuperDave's margins but enough to make my day today.  Edited by nohope587
04/19/2009 7:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
781 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Check out this and see if you can see why I was willing to pay $10 more than he asked and still thought I was getting a great deal on a cleaned coin. Fancy 5, but those aren't worth much of a premium, from Heritage's records. Is it the (rather heavy) doubling on the reverse? That looked like Machine Doubling to me, but I don't know the varieties for this issue. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Cherrypicking and honesty sometimes good and sometimes maybe not. At a local flea market a dealer there sells coins. He is rather raggety and not to bright a person. He gets there on Friday for the Friday flea market and stays in his van at night for Saturday. So on his tables he usually has 3 bins of coins. He DUMPS US coins in two of them, foreign coins are DUMPED into the other one. Over the years I've purchased possibly over a thousand Mercury dimes from him from those bins. Almost every year and mint mark possible including a 42D/41, 21D, 26S, etc. His prices on Merc Dimes has always been $1/coin but the more you buy, the cheaper the coin. I USED TO buy enough of those that the price is from $0.80 to $0.90 each. This dealer USED to not have any idea of coins values except if old should cost more, maybe. So I finally got irritated and got him a Numismatic Listing of coin prices. Told him of coin shows and how dealer put coins in 2x2's. Told him he is loosing out on a lot of money. Told him about coin albums and folders. So guess what. Now he sells like a coin dealer. I could not cherry pick anything anymore since he now looks at everything and prices like a true coin dealer. Me and my big mouth or did I do the right thing? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2049 Posts |
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Buyer/Seller Beware...those who do their research usually come out ahead. Couldnt agree more. The more common saying obviously is buyer beware, but it goes both ways. I am still amazed that I get odd looks or responses when I use the phrase "seller beware". If a seller doesn't take the time to properly research an item, whether it's out of laziness, or not enough time or not enough knowledge, the buyer in no way should be held responsible or feel guilty if they paid what the seller asked for it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5953 Posts |
SuperDave you are correct a fancy 5 does not command a premium. In fact the reality is its harder to find a plain five in nice condition... This is a variety of RPD I have been chasing for several years.. The main indicator is the die chip above the T of cents. along with the shape of the 6 and 5 in the date. Its not a common or well know variety. I have only seen it in one reference book. But its one I did not have until yesterday.
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Rest in Peace
United States
1729 Posts |
Here's another perspective, from a strictly monetary point of view.
I used to sell books at antique shows. Once in Joplin, before the doors opened, another dealer whose table was located a few steps away from me bought a regimental history from me for $10. Later in the day I noticed that he had it on his table priced at $24.
Did I feel ripped off? Hardly. I had bought the book at an auction in a large lot of books. I sold it at a profit of probably 2000% or better. He still had the book on his table when the show closed.
Yes, with more research (and keep in mind that this was in the '70's, before the Internet) I could have known to have priced the book higher, but I priced it to sell, and it did. In fact, I paid for the entire lot of books that it came from with this one sale.
Sometimes we just don't know the "rest of the story"!
On the other hand, when I'm going through a large lot of foreign coins sold to me in bulk by my local dealer, I pull out items I know that he's interested in - for example, some bronze presidential tokens that I had no interest in. He's done me enough favors that I feel obligated to return them. I don't need to educate him, and he's already stated that he doesn't want to spend his time pawing through foreigns; his time is better spent with more valuable estate coins.
It's all relative!
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Valued Member
United States
311 Posts |
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How much time have you spent learning about VAMs? How much time have you spent searching for these coins? You should probably take this into account. Sure you may have paid 25% of what the coin was worth, but the work that went into finding that coin was significant as well. In my opinion the other 75% was money that you earned. I think this is a very good point regarding VAMs... How long would it take to attribute VAMs for several hundred Morgans, for somebody who isn't already expert in them? I mean, I've looked at images of some of the VAMs, and even with the little pointy arrows and XXX-factor magnification, I still can't tell the difference half the time. So if it were me, I'd have to seriously weigh the cost of those hours of searching, against the potential gain of however many VAMs I *might* find... and unless business was really bad, I would probably decide to just go ahead and sell the coin for a fair profit based on its more easily identified attributes. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Carl, did you ever wonder where he got his coins to dump into these bins at the flea market? It was good of you to pass along information to someone you felt needed it. Whether he uses it is another thing.
success,
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
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Me and my big mouth or did I do the right thing?
I feel that you did the right thing. It was his choice to do business the way he did, and you profited from that business model, but you gave back as well. There will always be more sources of Mercs; you gave a guy a chance to do better for himself, and those are rare opportunities. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5616 Posts |
Just my opinion, If you do find something that is obviously a great deal and this "person selling" this coin is not aware of the real value, your good find, due to your education and research however, If you have to make up a story or LIE to the seller to improve your "find"( Mr Lembke ) then I believe this is wrong. There is a fine line between telling the truth and covering up to further your gains, not to mention the Moral issue....PS: I too collect Morgans( among other coins) and have done an extreme amount of research on the subject of Vams, I have found that Many sellers do not have a clue as to what this subject is even about......Have fun, enjoy the hunt, if you have to Lie for any reason during the process,to me, this is wrong....
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Valued Member
United States
429 Posts |
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't cherry picking part of the thrill in looking at coins? There are only a few dealers that I buy from and if I come across something that should not be there I let them know, and because of their respect, they still sell it to me for that price. A few months ago I bought about 1000 wheat's and found a few semi key dates in about G4 condition. They could have taken them from me and easily put them in a display case but because of my love of Lincolns they were glad that I received it and not someone else.
I have only been to one coin show (which will shortly change, YAY) and remember how many people were there just to cherry pick. In fact, one guy I kind of shadowed for awhile and tried to see what he was doing. He would look through the entire inventory and usually end up buying a couple of coins and then tell the dealer what he bought and what he should be looking for in the future. All the dealers I watched were happy for the news and wanted to learn more.
Every shop you go into they specialize in one or a few coins but not everything. If they specialize in Morgans then look at Cents, if they specialize in Paper money then look at coins, no matter where you go there will be at least one great deal to find. And last of all, I do not feel sorry for a professional to have one or two coins fall through the crack when they are making a great profit in the first place.
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Replies: 22 / Views: 2,644 |
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Posted 04/19/2009 10:38 am
