I'm in at Unc-Details due to cleaning...IMO coin shows no luster but a high gloss shine from the cleaning.
Quote: it has a lot of luster
What you want to see is a cartwheel effect
Quote: cartwheel 1. The pleasing effect seen on some coins when they are rotated in a good light source. The luster rotates around like the spokes of a wagon wheel. A term applied mainly to frosty Mint State coins, especially silver dollars, to describe their luster. Also, a slang term for a silver dollar.
copy and pasted from the numismatic glossary located on the left of every page.
Greasy Fingers, it does cartwheel nicely but I'm unable to show it in the photos with my phone. I might try taking more photos with my camera to see if those help. I'll probably take it into my LCS to see what they think of the coin in person.
The last series of pics are so illuminated that it washes out the defects of this coin. My first impression was that it had been cleaned due to the heavy scratching not only in the fields but crossing the devices as well. Cleaned or not, I agree with Adam that the scratches alone are significant enough to keep this out of a straight grade holder. I'm calling it MS details- scratched.
It's been Improperly Cleaned. It is void of natural luster and mint bloom. With time you'll learn to see this. It's understandable if you are relatively new to collecting that you think it's problem-free. 20 years ago I was in your shoes and I didn't take more than a few months and viewing a few dozen coin to note the differences.
Thanks everyone your insight on the coin. I can certainly understand the opinions based on the photos. I'm having a tough time with this one because I haven't been able to take any photos that truly capture what the coin looks like in person. I have uncirculated coin sets that look virtually identical and also don't show show well when I try taking photos.
I'll probably take to my LCS to see what they say when they can see it in person. Mainly because I'm just interested.
Greetings screetalus A few months ago, I would've looked at the pictures of this Peace dollar and thought it was fine and hadn't been cleaned, or attempted to be cleaned I should say because it looks like that may have been the case, either way I think we all mostly know and agree that it should not be done, if you are serious about Numismatics and care about the value and originality of your Coins. Anyway, if you go back out on the main topic list for grading just down a little ways, you'll see a 1923-S Peace dollar for grading That belongs to me, and unfortunately, somebody at some point cleaned it. I'm thinking they possibly even took a buffer to it, which baffles me Please take a look if you would like and tell me what you think.
The fine hair lines are indicative of a fine abrasive have been used...baking soda and water was very common in the day. Still a pretty coin...my favorite series! smat
Thank you for the video, BH1964! That was very helpful! I certainly have more to learn about how to spot cleaning. I usually just look for fine parallel lines indicating brush strokes, but you wouldn't see those if someone buffed it!
There is something of a pendulum that swings back and forth with third party grading. Right now, all of the TPGs are grading coins more strictly than just a couple years ago. Some coin series, like the Morgan dollars and Peace dollars, are graded more tightly than others, possibly simply because the TPGs see so many of them. Even within those series, some dates are graded much more tightly than others.
Many of us have frustrations with some (or all) of the TPGs because of these subtle shifts in how they see particular coins or where they draw the line between graded coins and detailed coins. Their "dipping isn't cleaning" and "old but market acceptable cleaning isn't a cleaned coin" exceptions are examples of standards that changed over the years. Their tighter views of everything else that points to cleaning makes guessing how a TPG will see a particular coin even more difficult. It's made a lot of collectors more reluctant to pay the cost for their grading opinions. The real value of the TPGs is their guarantee of authenticity for the more valuable coins in a series or the more frequently counterfeited coins.
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Posted 03/05/2025 10:53 pm
A few months ago, I would've looked at the pictures of this 
. Anyway, if you go back out on the main topic list for grading just down a little ways, you'll see a 1923-S 
Please take a look if you would like and tell me what you think.
