| Author |
 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,771 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
 United States
25406 Posts |
I assume that any coin 350+ years old has been cleaned at some point. But this one does not appear to have been harshly cleaned. It would probably straight grade if that is your concern.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1156 Posts |
A coin with such sharp details should show some lustre at least in protected areas. I see none -- don't pay a premium. I think you will be disappointed if you expect a straight grade from a TPG. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I agree with the cleaning comments of Hondo Bogus, and as such,
this coin should not show any sign of mint luster,
especially on a coin that proports to be 370 years old.
I also agree with the comments on straight grading.
Beware: Excellent very deceiving fakes of European large size silver coins exist.
I am NOT an expert on large European silver of this period that appear to be in very nice condition,
but I must make to point that authenticity should be confirmed.
For an American collectors in particular, slabbing IS important.
Question apart: Does Heritage or some other similar auction company provide an independent authentication service, apart from slabbing ?
Edited by sel_69l
03/28/2025 7:59 pm
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
25406 Posts |
nwskeptic89, you should make a deal with the seller. Send it off for certification - if it's genuine you'll pay the cost and purchase it. Or just pay to have it certified with no purchase agreement - if fake, don't buy it.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5246 Posts |
The fields are not smooth. I might have suggested corrosion but I don't know how well these were struck.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
3343 Posts |
"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
03/28/2025 11:40 pm
|
|
New Member
 United States
4 Posts |
@thq - That is the exact coin I posted pics of. It has been authenticated (NGC) but got a details grade for supposedly being cleaned.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
7955 Posts |
I REALLY do not like the look of this coin, especially for the first reason given by @thq: an overwhelming majority of Leeuwendaalders are unevenly struck and this one looks too good to be true. They were widely counterfeited. Recently needed to swap out a Numista photo because it was a counterfeit (and yes, sold by a reputable auction house). Furthermore, I trust the TPGs less on foreign coins than on US, UK. As I began comparing it to other 1641s, I noticed some systematic differences: Normally the knight's ear is fiddlehead shaped, but this one is not Normally the beaded circle continues between the knight's helmet and its feather, but not on yours, Normally the knight's collar is small squares (when it is visible), but this one has slanted lines. And the little S-shaped squiggle at the end of the ribbon (around 9:00) does not show up elsewhere ...  Yes, a lot of these were minted, so there would have been many die pairs used, each prepared by hand. So, maybe this was just a die prepared by a different person (because the features I mentioned above were typical of more than one obverse die). And, arguing in favor of this interpretation is that I was able to find two additional coins made from this obverse die, both auctioned in in 2023 at the same place, along with many other 1641s that are from different dies. I would not spend that kind of money on such a suspicious looking coin, but I have to admit it's very attractive, and if a TPG says it's authentic ... But I think that price is highway robbery, as pointed out by thq. Edited by tdziemia
03/30/2025 5:50 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7285 Posts |
|
|
Valued Member
United Kingdom
387 Posts |
Looks too good to be true. The detail all looks too strong, as far as I can tell. My gut feeling is that it's an electrotype, but I could easily be wrong. I wouldn't buy it simply cos of the doubts it's just raised in me.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
4593 Posts |
Next time, if it's already been to a TPG, graded, and received a details grade - lead with that. Don't make us waste time pretending it's raw. Help us to help you.-----Burton 50+ year / Life / Emeritus ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, EveryCountry (online) coin club Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983) Author: 3rd Edition of the Sample Slabs book, https://www.sampleslabs.info/ |
|
New Member
United States
4 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
7955 Posts |
Well, knowing the coin has been in Russia (and maybe is still) is at least some additional information for you. After a look at some of this seller's other coins, this may or may not be pertinent: http://goccf.com/t/473257At a minimum, if you are leaning toward buying, do your homework on what a reasonable offer would be. Edited by tdziemia
03/31/2025 2:43 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
Edited by colonialjohn
04/01/2025 10:21 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1962 Posts |
Looks to have to been deftly toned with some lovely deep charcoal Deller's Darkener Shoe Polish for Silver. Coin is an absolute steal even at more than $3000!!!
This is a good thread - more cowbell, please!
As an aside, if you do a runthrough of auction archive examples of 1641 Gelderland pieces, there are some nice mostly level/round planchets with even strikes and full or nearly so legends... atypically so for what we think of for the average lion dollar.
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 18 / Views: 2,771 |
Page 2 of 2
|
First Page
Posted 03/28/2025 6:28 pm
