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Is This Ike A Legit Clipped Planchet?

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Bedrock of the Community

United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  9:56 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have this thing since 1972.
I would like some good opinions on it as to whether it was made up to be a clip or if it is a real mint error.
Thank you kindly.

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Pillar of the Community
copper nickel daddy's Avatar
United States
2224 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  10:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add copper nickel daddy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! If it is it's big bucks! There are people that know more about this than I, but something I don't see is "the Blakesley Effect", which is a softly struck area on the rim opposite the clip. But, there are times the effect does not show on coins that are well struck, and to strike an Ike requires an incredible amount of pressure. Therefore, not seeing the effect with this type coin does not necessarily mean it's not genuine. I'm looking forward to others with more knowledge than me chiming in.
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coop's Avatar
United States
62064 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's actually a double clip.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah I see that little one on the edge by the Y in Liberty. I just rather others vouched for this.
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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wowser. It looks good to me, and I do see a bit of a Blakesley effect. The chiseling of the rim near the small clip, and the devices near the large clip on the reverse tell me it's genuine, in my opinion. That's a dandy coin.
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coppercoins's Avatar
United States
7629 Posts
 Posted 03/07/2012  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coppercoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The small clip is genuine. The large one is questionable.
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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We'd need higher-res photos to get a better look at how the metal flowed during the strike.
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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd like to see a close-up of the devices near the clip on the reverse especially. The olive leaves and letters look distorted from here, but I'd like a closer look.
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dave700x's Avatar
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The large clip should be a specific radius that exactly matches the outside radius of the die or die collar?
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biokemist6's Avatar
United States
12437 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suspect that the large clip is manufactured, someone wanted to make a coin with a very small clip appear to be more desirable. Notice that the edge and rim is tapered at the small clip but the large one ends abruptly. You should see significant die flow on Ike's head, ON...AR, and the olive branch but I am not seeing any flow at all. A clip that size should also display a strong Blakesley Effect. Don't discard it just yet, larger pics could prove to be more definitive either way.


Quote:
The large clip should be a specific radius that exactly matches the outside radius of the die or die collar?

No, die flow will slightly distort the clip so it will not be perfectly rounded and sized. It should at least be reasonably close to the same curvature as the coin though, just not an exact match.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  11:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's probably the best I can do without a major setup. Maybe it's enough.

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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might be going out on a limb but it still looks good to me.

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Notice the distortion of the N and A and especially the olive leaves. The olive leaves on a normal Ike are not shaped like that. And take a look at those talons. I believe they were distorted by metal flowing into the void of the incomplete planchet.

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The rim here shows a Blakesley effect to my eye. Notice how high it is at the leftmost arrow, and then slopes down and is flat at the rightmost arrow. The same thing can be seen on the obverse where it goes from being a sharp, square rim in on the left and right side to a softer, rounded rim at the bottom opposite the clip.

It would also be normal to expect the rim to have a stronger chiseling effect on a smaller clip. With a small clip like that, the whole clip is within the rim, so the whole rim is going to be distorted within that area. The clip also intersects the rim at a shallow angle, so the transition between normal and distorted rim is going to be gradual. With the large clip, it will intersect the rim at a much steeper angle, so there will be less of the rim in the transitional area and a much more abrupt change from normal to absent rim.
Edited by CaptainFwiffo
03/08/2012 11:54 am
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with copper coin, the small clip is definitely real but I don't feel good about the large one.
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CaptainFwiffo's Avatar
United States
4132 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For comparison, here's a PCGS registry set of Eisenhower dollars that includes a number with large clips.
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jbuck's Avatar
United States
190135 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know very little about errors, but this one is interesting (because it is an Eisenhower dollar, of course). I do like how the small clip looks. It would be a shame if the larger clip proved to be PMD, as it would have ruined a decent coin.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  12:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm no expert on errors either, but how would that thin, raised lip on the clip (shown above) be struck that way?
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