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World Identification And Numismatic Grading Service (Wings)?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
7729 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  09:39 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Has anybody heard of these guys? I saw their (full or half page) ad in this weeks Coin World, and they seem to be copying the CAC idea of adding "beans" to their coins. They accept the TOP IV TPG; PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG. They have "Best in Grade" gold stickers.

I can't access their website at work (ACCESS DENIED) http://www.wingscoins.com

When will it end?
Edited by oih82w8
12/18/2012 3:27 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2422 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  10:05 am  Show Profile   Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the website is a single page site with contact information and an amatuerish write up
Pillar of the Community
Sweden
728 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add epikur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No prices, nothing...someone should give Larry a call.
Strikes me odd that the corporate office is in Miami and the PO box is in Tampa..They make it look like it's a big operation..I have my doubts about that though.

If a basement slabber is called a slobber, what's a basement stickerer called?
Pillar of the Community
United States
615 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HippieOutcast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The fact that their name was picked on purpose to spell wings makes me shudder.
Moderator
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If a basement slabber is called a slobber, what's a basement stickerer called?


A backslapper.
Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  5:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

The fact that their name was picked on purpose to spell wings makes me shudder.


Seriously, it just looks childish having wings on a slab and makes me think of red bull
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16970 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh great, now I need one.
Gary Schmidt
Pillar of the Community
United States
1799 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it would be interesting if someone who had submitted coins to CAC that didn't meet their standards for a CAC sticker, photo their non-stickered coins, then submit them to WINGS for their opinion and see if it meets their standards of excellence, and if so, post photos of the WINGS stickered slabs...

I, myself, would like to see CAC offer a second option of their service and accept all sealed certified coins, reguardless of Service Certification, and place a "Grade Sticker" (can be a different color for each level) and place it directly over the original grade location... It would be nice to have this option available for those like myself that had used other services a dozen years back, before ebay changed their requirements on listing Certified Coins...
I also think that this option would be a Cash Cow because all the grader would have to do is look at the coin and pull a sticker from one of the rolls of grade stickers available at each grade station, apply the sticker and move on to the next coin...

The other plus would be knowing what coins to cross over to either NGC or PCGS for those that purchase nothing else.

IMO I would not have any problem of (as an example) sending a PCI MS64 graded Morgan come back with a CAC sticker with a grade of EF40 or AU50, as that would be the true value of the coin.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1411 Posts
 Posted 12/18/2012  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Windchild to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's what someone should do:

1. Buy a $10 slab
2. Send it to WINGS
3. See if they sticker it
4. Peel off sticker
5. Send to CAC
6. Post Results here!

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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2012  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CAC doesn't do World coins. That's probably why these people appeared.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1799 Posts
 Posted 12/24/2012  11:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@oih82w8

I just clicked on last weeks digital edition of Coin World and viewed the WINGS advertisement.

This company was started by Lance Tchar, a name I recognized from the past and just didn't know if it was the same person as I didn't know how his last name was spelled...

I used to share a spot with my brother in numerous coin shows (I purchased and sold errors and my brother handled everything else) and the last show I had done was the Wespnex show in Westchester,NY back in 2001...

I telephoned my brother after seeing the WINGS Coin World advertisement and asked him what was Lance's last name, and sure enough it was Tchar. I then asked if it was Char (that's what I thought it was) and he replied "No, it's spelled with a T", and I then told him about WINGS...

Our table was about 20 feet from Lance and his wife's (Denise) table... He was also employed by Teletrade when they operated in Kingston, NY and believe Teletrade provided the table fees...

Without a doubt Lance had many of the top high value coins and knows quality (I would trust his opinion more than ANACS or NGC (I never dealt directly with PCGS), and had I known he was the person that started WINGS, and inspecting coins for quality, I never would have posted the above comment...

I know he was well known in the coin community by many dealers the last time I seen him back in 2001...

When I picked a Avatar, I emailed 2 photos and let CCF post what they thought would be a good Avatar, the photos were a 2003d quad-strike and my Wespnex (Westchester,NY) dealer badge from 2001. The dealer badge is below...

New Member
United States
29 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2012  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MightyMikeMIami to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Hello.

Let me introduce myself. I am Larry Michelson and I am one of the Managers of Wings Coins, LLC. A Manager of an LLC is like the president of a corporation. I felt it important to try to provide some information about WINGS and to answer some of your comments. First, we truly appreciate the time you took to make comments as well as the comments themselves. Hopefully I can allay some of your concerns and misconceptions. Our goal is to run a first class operation highlighted by our knowledge, experience, honesty, integrity and competency. We highly value our customers and our customer service.

I will begin initially with a little background and about the principals. Wings started 4 years ago. The technical side of Wings will be headed by Lance Tchor. He will be based in Tampa because that is where he lives. He has been a full time rare coin dealer and a world coin expert since 1977. Lance has personally built many number one world coin registry sets, and presently has four sets rated number one in the NGC Registry. In 2009 NGC saw fit to award him for outstanding achievement with the coveted BEST WORLD SET 2009, a best of the best award. Lance has personally written over 100,000 auction lot descriptions for the world's leading online numismatic auction company and has written numerous articles for several numismatic publications, including the ANA's, "The Numismatist". He is life member #5190 of the ANA and belongs to several other numismatic organizations. Lance will be the finalizer. This means that he has final say on whether a coin should be stickered or not. There are several qualified graders who have been retained.

The administrative end of the business will be managed by me in Miami. This is where I live. By way of background I received my CPA license in 1977 in Florida. I worked full time at a big eight accounting firm- Peat, Marwick, Mitchell. I attended the University of Miami law school at night while continuing my full time day job as a CPA. I graduated from U.M. in 1981. I opted to continue my studies and I received a masters degree in law with a major in taxation. Thus I received an LLM.-Taxation. This was 1982. I next became a board certified tax attorney in Florida. This is only awarded to individuals with a certain amount of work experience and the passing of a strenuous test. I also chair our city's (Pinecrest, FL) oral review board for our police department. No police officer is hired without getting my committee's consent. This is a position that I have held since 1996. In addition to being married to my high school sweetheart for 35 years we have one beautiful daughter who is a junior at Washington University in St. Louis.

To provide a sense of security to customers we are FULLY INSURED! Regarding our gold sticker and security, it took over a year to get finalized. Our stickers are holographic and fraud proof. They are non-transferable. They crumble if there is an attempt to remove them. Moreover, we intend to have on our website the ability to match the coin's serial number with whether or not that coin was stickered by us. Until that time any one can contact us at our toll free number or email and ask us directly if the coin is legitimate or not.

I would next like to address some of the specific comments:

1) For oih82w8: We only verify world coins, not US coins. CAC only verifies US coins, not world coins. We only sticker graded coins that have pizzaz and would be considered, "Best in Grade". We feel that our gold stickers will yield similar premiums and increased coin values in the market place as CAC stickers have shown to bring.

As far as not being able to access our website, I am perplexed. No one that I have spoken with has had that problem. Please contact me so that we can find a solution.

2) For Wade: At this time the website is a single informational page which is presently under construction and will be fully operational by January 7, 2013.

3) For epikur: To allay your doubts we are a big operation. We have been 4 years in the making. Further, I can assure you that prices and all other information will be on the final website which is currently under construction. In the meantime please feel free to call me toll free at 855-33WINGS (339-4647) to answer any questions that you may have.

4) For HippieOutcast: The practice of picking a name to match an acronym is quite common in business, military and educational institutions. The name "WINGS" and was picked purposely by our numismatic staff after much thought. WINGS is the acronym for World Identification and Numismatic Grading Service.

5) For basebal21: The shape of our gold sticker is the industry norm and widely accepted. The wings that you may be referring to is our company logo. You may be confusing our sticker with our logo.

6) For Conder101:
If your comment was intended to mean that now you need a red bull, I concur. If your comment was intended to mean "great now I need a Wings sticker" let me share a story. When CAC started they provided free submissions for a short period of time. As we all know they have grown tremendously and produced a much sought after green sticker. Their coins seem to bring a premium over similar non-stickered coins in the market place. For Wings, we also intend to provide 20 free submissions to FUN show attendees (you pay standard shipping, handling and insurance). Based on the interest that I am seeing on this thread I am willing to extend that offer to participants who are in this thread. This offer will last for as long as our free submission program lasts. Please contact us at info@wingscoins.com for more information. So I would suggest to take us up on the offer. Don't make the same mistake and miss this free opportunity.

7) For Windchild: Anyone who submits a US coin to us will have it returned and referred to CAC. We only verify grades on world coins. As stated before, our stickers are non-transferable and crumble at the attempt to remove them.

8) For SsuperDdave: Now I know why you are called "super". You hit the nail on the head.


You may think this post is long and wordy but I felt it very important to address your issues and to let you know a little bit more about WINGS and who we are. I take this business very, very seriously and wouldn't be involved in any business that wasn't totally above board and committed to success.


For your free submissions please see my response to Conder101 above. As always if there are any problems or questions I would invite you to email me at Larry@wingscoins.com or to call me on our toll free line 1-855-33WINGS (339-4647).

Again we thank you for your comments and thoughts.

Thank you very much

Larry Michelson, Manager
Wings Coins, LLC

New Member
United States
29 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2012  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MightyMikeMIami to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dear oihw828,

First, I posted my reply without having seen your 2nd post. Thank you for your kind words. Comments such as yours are very welcomed as they help lend confidence and credibility to who we are without any self serving statements by us. You are right, it is the same Lance Tchor (by the way it's Tchor").

You are also right that Lance is an expert. At all the coin shows that we do, dealers come up to him all the time to ask his opinion about this coin or that. They totally rely on his opinion before purchasing the coin under question. Any yes, he has been doing this full time and for a long time. In fact, he has been doing this for 35 years.

Again, thank you.

Larry Michelson
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1411 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2012  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Windchild to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Larry,

My reply was assuming that US coins would be verified, along with World coins. With that being wrong, my entire remark earlier in this thread is wrong.

My bad,
Windchild
New Member
United States
29 Posts
 Posted 12/25/2012  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MightyMikeMIami to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Windchild,

Thanks for taking the time (on Christmas!) to reply. Absolutely no problem. Your initial comment was quite understandable. That's why I felt it important to let you know a little about us and our company. I hope that it helped.
Take care
Larry
Moderator
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United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 12/26/2012  5:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Larry, thank you very much for taking the time to formally introduce your company here. Given the large number of fly-by-night "TPG's" in numismatics, I hope you'll understand why we might tend to greet news of new companies with initial skepticism. This skepticism is obviously not warranted in your case, and I wish you well in your venture.

We (CCF) are going to be at FUN. We have tables 273 & 275. Stop by and say hello.
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