1787 Milan Mint 1780 Maria Theresa Thaler: Aggghhhhhh!!

I have seen your posts in the past and all I am saying this is a COMPLEX coinage in terms of originals and restrikes ... it seems even with a good reference book on this ONE ISSUE it would take a seasoned collector months to know what he is buying ... its just been restruck/re-issued so many times everybody is CONFUSED on what an Original should look like and which restrike IS IT?

John Lorenzo
United States

Colonel John: your not wrong. Collecting MTTs is very much like playing gold is for me. I don't play golf its a silly game...involving a stick wrongly shaped and a target you can't see. All that said Gold is probably very addictive for all those reasons....because it is such an awkward game ay samll success in it becomes addicting before you know Your on the links every day.

More seriously
The MTT is a modern version of an ancient. It has some much economic history to tell but with out a clear date on each coin. It is a lot simpler than it first looks. First off the coin has never been "restruck" using original dies so the aprox 30 known originals are easily identified and range in price from US$2500- US$30,000.

For me the hunt is the key..some things in the catalog don't make sense. For example coins that are more primitive than their assumed peers).
For me finding the sense is the joy of the series the advantage is so few have looked at rechecking the "so-called-known-facts" the series is largely an undiscovered country numismatically speaking.

Hi Henry

Milan Banks in 1786 lobbied for the right to produced the MTT. The simple reason being were the transport costs were cutting into the profits banks were making from the coin. As Milan was part of the Austrian Habsburg lands the decision was made to give them the right to make the coin. The Vienna mint design was used( the dies were made in Vienna) so at least one of the varieties currently attributed to Vienna has to be from Milan.

I have plans to write a book but a catalog is a very different matter. I have been having regular contact with Walter Hafner via email he plans a new updated issue of his catalog early next year. My focus is on the story(ies) Because the coin is so ubiquitous its largely been ignored and info is being lost as this post indicates. Another story I want to hunt down or see someone else hunt down is the American production of the MTT during the second world war( by the OSS).

I have had success in researching is H5( valued in Krause at US$2000 since 1991) there are two stories in the literature about its location and date of minting. The one currently believed is based on a speculative "maybe". I have been able to prove that one as incorrect.
That means the second and older story is true(98% confidence): that being that H5 was struck in the third quarter of 1793. That story is more important as it takes the Mint signature of "F.S" from a simple transposition error through to a deliberate subsequently disapproved design. Vienna mint ordered the dies and coins of that variety destroyed.

LuckyCuss:




Only one other bidder and I got it for €135.00 plus BP and Tax( add a total of 20%). I have re-examined Leypold's grainy photograph and german text: that buy is by description( almost round brooch) and from what can be seen in the photograph a 1787 Milan strike. The key feature is the almost round brooch. IC-FA Brooches are normally and obviously oval.