1780 Thaler - But Precisely What Type?

The pictures make the coin look like it was heavily polished. There is a lack of detail that is not really normal. The overall type is clearly post 1865 and likely as you suspect much more recent. The fact that the planchet is undersized could point to one of the unauthorized WWII strikes.

It is H58. Hafner told it is 39.5 mm in diameter. Lucky Cuss, can you tell the diameter of your coin, just an additional datum to our forum. Thanks, Henry

For me the photos looked pretty accurate for the type. Its not an overly valuable variety but it is a 'key' to the 20th century history of the coin. When Mussolini talked Austria into giving Italy a 25 year right to produce the coin in 1935, the Johnson and Matthey contract was cancelled. Johnson and Matthey then approached the British government, who were very concerned at the Italian victory ( with regards the MTT) this lead to the UK striking the coin and Johnson and Matthey having lead over the supply of the Brit MTTs until the war office took control of production in 1939/40. Its a coin not so valuable in dollar terms but priceless in historical terms!

Edit: there is a second possibility to the identity of your coin. When the Italians gained the minting rights Vienna transferred all the tooling to Rome- One French researcher describes three varieties of Rome mint coins(Dr Hafner currently only describes 1). The first variety, according to Regourdy, being almost exactly the same as the Johnson and Matthey coin. You reported a larger diametre than I was expecting. Therefore yours might possibly be from Rome. First check the weight If 28.06grams or slightly less then it is likely it is Vienna. If its between 28.07 & 28.14 gms then it is likely to be Rome. Rome produced MTT's using the Lira silver alloy(835) instead of the Austrian 833 1/3 standard.

I'm getting a weight of 28.12 grams. But if it's in fact an H71, I'm not seeing the associated obverse die crack. However, am I understanding you correctly that Regourdy identifies an earlier subtype that may lack that characteristic?

austrokiwi : I hope you planned to discuss about the fake counterstamps on MTT appearing magically in some auction houses ... ? :D
I've sent a message to the ANE facebook account yesterday (there were spanish stamps involved - one is in the next auction) - in case it's worth something ...

A couple more I happened to stumble across today. I don't judge these to be very old at all, but I also again think they're not the exactly the same as those being currently minted. They do seem to me to be of a single type, despite having differences in appearance. #1 has a semi-prooflike quality to it, while #2 seems to have been struck with the dies (especially the reverse) in a more advanced state of wear.

Both weigh 28.25 grams, but again their diameters are irregular. Each is 40.7mm in height, but #1 is 41.8mm in width, while #2 is 41.1 mm wide.

They make for (I hope) an interesting comparison to each other and to the one with which I started this thread.

#1





#2

The diameter(s) being in excess of 40mm would seem to favor an H60 identification.

Also, for whatever it's worth, #2 exhibits a die peculiarity, a stray dot in the central shield of the coat of arms, and just up and to its left, a less distinct and more irregular bump, neither of which should be there.