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Canadian Blacksmith Coppers - Inquiry

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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 04/04/2018  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Check 1960NYGiants's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1960NYGiants to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@colonialjohn

A friend just purchased this one at the recent Nashua, NH show. Weighs 7.9g, 28.6mm, copper and near N/S rotation. Would appreciate your opinion as to what it is and approx value. Thank you,

Gene



Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2018  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a Blacksmith but more possibly being two reverses sandwiched together say of a Charlton LC-57 type or Seated Justice type reverse. Check the edge for a SANDWICH seam?

Very interesting if not a post mint SANDWICH job.

JPL
Valued Member
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2018  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Check 1960NYGiants's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1960NYGiants to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've looked at the edge with a 10x loupe and cannot see a seem. I'll check it out with a microscope at work and report back here.

Thanks, Gene
Valued Member
United States
172 Posts
 Posted 04/09/2018  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Check 1960NYGiants's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1960NYGiants to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The microscope we have at work only goes up to 40x. I see something there but cannot determine if it is the engrailed edge or a seam.
Valued Member
United States
196 Posts
 Posted 11/25/2019  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Colonial John, I just happened to spot this thread, and I remember posting pictures of a BL-24b Ships, colonies & Commerce. You commented at that time that although "it is a huge find", you can expect graders to give it a Fine, not Very Fine. Well, I submitted it to to ICCS, and received it back as a GOOD !The Charleton plate is a horrible picture, and mine far exceeds it in grade. I would like to ask you where there are pictures (images) of better BL-24b's. If mine is only a Good, what does a better one look like?
Valued Member
Canada
119 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2019  11:46 am  Show Profile   Check ainsivalavie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
BL-24b Ships, colonies & Commerce... ... If mine is only a Good, what does a better one look like?


From my pictures database:

ICCS - G-4 Corrosion:



CCCS - G-4:



CCCS - VG-10:



ICCS - F-12:



NGC - EF-40 (Ex. Doug Robins):
Edited by ainsivalavie
11/27/2019 11:48 am
Valued Member
United States
196 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2019  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much for your reply, and pictures. Such a great group makes it easy to generalize a grade for my token. When colonialjohn and I shared thoughts last year, he compared it to some he had, and figured it to be very fine, but warned me to expect less, as most people don't understand how these tokens were produced. I am including pictures and you can see why I think mine is a very fine - and my pictures are just so-so. Let me know what you think.

Valued Member
Canada
119 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2019  9:25 pm  Show Profile   Check ainsivalavie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ainsivalavie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Thank you very much for your reply, and pictures. Such a great group makes it easy to generalize a grade for my token. When colonialjohn and I shared thoughts last year, he compared it to some he had, and figured it to be very fine, but warned me to expect less, as most people don't understand how these tokens were produced. I am including pictures and you can see why I think mine is a very fine - and my pictures are just so-so. Let me know what you think.

I'm not a great specialist in Blacksmith tokens. But one thing is certain from my point of view, your token is of a much higher grade than Good. ICCS has been completely disconnected on this gradation.
Edited by ainsivalavie
11/27/2019 9:26 pm
Valued Member
United States
196 Posts
 Posted 11/27/2019  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I fully agree. I intend to resubmit the token to NGC, as I saw your best token was correctly graded. a great looking token, I might add. Thanks again for the opinion, and for your help.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1484 Posts
 Posted 11/29/2019  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most grading services have trouble grading pieces that are irregularly struck or to be more clearly ... non-uniformally struck as are most Blacksmith varieties. NGC may not be better. I think most specialist can determine if something is improperly third party graded. For Blacksmiths IMO I see no reason therefore to third party grade this series. Stacks/Bowers is probably the best place to auction these pieces in the U.S. and Geoffrey Bell in Canada.

JPL
Valued Member
Canada
369 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2019  12:08 am  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Undoubtedly, CCCS is the best place to send Canadian colonial tokens for grading. I'm amazed that the NGC EF posted by ainsi actually looks correct.
Edited by TerryT
12/08/2019 12:12 am
Valued Member
United States
196 Posts
 Posted 12/08/2019  3:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yontan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks again, such replies. and the picture selection gave me much information. I feel better, and vindicated for already having cut it out of the ICCS holder. More later.
Valued Member
Canada
432 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2020  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unruhjonny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
can someone please provide me more information, or a link to this book?

I believe I have a blacksmith/counterfiet token - one side looks very much like the first picture from 1960NYGiant's post from 04-04-18 - but it has a faint bust on the other side.
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