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 Replies: 85 / Views: 13,122 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1442 Posts |
The big question is how many of those MS66+ ICCS will successfully cross-over to PCGS...
That's a risk I'd not want to take, especially after many have paid over trends on these
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1505 Posts |
It would be a very interesting test of TPG consistency, send to PCGS, send back to ICCS to see if same grade is assigned. Maybe not a gamble for one of these coins, but it would be very interesting. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
541 Posts |
trends prices for Canada Lg Cents in CCN only go to MS 65 so when it comes to MS66 and better how can you determine trends value?..for example the 1888 MS65 trends at 1350 in MS65 but the landon cat estimates MS66 @ 2000 and the 1888 MS66 listed on ebay is asking over 4000..there are only 16 pieces in 1888 MS 66 added to the ICCS population of zero! so it would seem to me that any notion of trends prices for this coin would be meaningless and the ebay seller is justified in asking double the estimate... Edited by Cassidy77
03/16/2015 2:19 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2187 Posts |
Quote:
trends prices for Canada Lg Cents in CCN only go to MS 65 so when it comes to MS66 and better how can you determine trends value? I think that at a low population and at that high a grade, its what you're willing to pay and there's no trend. Which I think helps also explain why the Edward VII MS67 cent went to 12000. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5396 Posts |
It will be interesting to see if some of the major buyers of the Landon Large cents will get some into PCGS holders and offer them for sale. As SPP stated earlier some of his fellow collector friends were getting theirs redone in PCGS holders for registry sets. Time will tell if there will be a market for the Landon pedigree. I do know that we have done very well with what we have offered so far. Especially the odd ball and tokens we have sold. Some of that stuff was very cool and odd. Long term it is very possible that the SILVER coins that were in the Landon sale will be the real winners. Some of those pieces went very cheaply and they are superb!
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Pillar of the Community
Taiwan
606 Posts |
Trends are only a very loose guide and in this case it is
irrelevant. When fresh, high grade, and pristine material
comes to auction all bets are off.
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
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It will be interesting to see if some of the major buyers of the Landon Large cents will get some into PCGS holders and offer them for sale. Not the collectors I know... the lower graded coins that these new purchases will replace, will be the ones they sell. The Landon coins that they bought, and are placed into PCGS holders, will unlikely see the open market for a long time. If I was a betting man, any coins that Sandy bought - will likely be in PCGS holders in his showcase in the near future... if not already destined for his clients in the US. "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
That probably will be true of Mr. Campbell, as he is a big fan of PCGS grading. Maybe if he or TCNC(by far the biggest spender on the Landon Cents) can convince them to put Landon hoard on the labels could be interesting.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
541 Posts |
i checked out the TCNC site for Landon cents and couldnt see anything listed..judging by the small ammount of listings on ebay for the Large Cents it would appear that of the 1000 higher grade Landon Lg Cents auctioned very few will make it to ebay.....I wonder if PCGS or NGC would consider that ammount worthy of a special label..I guess considering all the other Landon Collection coins such as the rest of the Canadian decimal coins and the USA coins and the Tokens maybe they would do one label for everything Landon....it does add up to several thousand coins I think. Edited by Cassidy77
03/23/2015 10:44 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
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The big question is how many of those MS66+ ICCS will successfully cross-over to PCGS... I saw this in the thread and thought to myself... there is a better way to ask this question... How many of those MS66+ ICCS would PCGS actually call "Red"... therein lies the red herring between the two grading companies... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5396 Posts |
Indeed a red herring! Based on recent hands on observations and attendance at numerous recent US coin shows , I am willing to bet many ( but not all) will be red in PCGS holders. My advice to any who buy Canadian coins in PCGS ( not just any potential LANDON) holders be careful! The US TPG grading of Canadian coins is shall we say questionable. That said PCGS and their definition of red is very very strict. The definition of what is and what is not a Canadian PL coin is a totally different scenario. Remember when you go to price all of this stuff TRENDS clearly states their pricing formula is based on ICCS graded coins . US graded TPG COINS ARE NOT based on CCN trends. If you want a better indication OR COMPARISON try using Mike Findlay s PINK sheet for a price comparison. It shows that PCGS coins are often priced less than ICCS comparables. I recently submitted a bunch of previously graded Canadian Dollars in ICCS holders to a Major US TPG at the Portland ANA and will be intrigued to see what they come back. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
If there is a "red herring" between the two grading companies it may be the grades given and the different use of the Sheldon scale of the two companies. I see this as more of a issue when referring PCGS grading of Canadian coins than I see "red" designations. PCGS is the benchmark grading company for US coins and is the standard for US collectors and coin dealers. Just as ICCS is the benchmark grading company for Canadian coins and the standard for Canadian collectors and coin dealers. Both companies are excellent grading companies but use the Sheldon scale different. Selling US coins need to be PCGS graded to achieve top value in the US market and the same holds true with ICCS graded coins in the Canadian market. A good example of there different use of the Sheldon scale was the grading of the recent 2012 BOC gold coin release. I can only count on one hand the number of ICCS graded MS64 Canadian gold coins I have ever seen and have only ever seen 1 MS65. But have seen many Canadian gold coins PCGS graded MS64,64+,65,65+,66, and even 66+. Any Landon Large cents that end up being sent to PCGS for a cross grade who knows what grade they will get as they use the scale different than ICCS. This is why as I previously said the Landon sale was all ICCS graded because it was primarily a Canadian buyer market. Had nothing to do with ICCS being more affordable or could meet a fast turn around. If the hoard had been early US cents they all would have been PCGS graded. It the perfect world it would be great if all grading companies used the Sheldon scale exactly the same. Edited by wireman09
03/24/2015 09:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
wireman09...couldn't have said it better myself. Bottom line...for US coins use PCGS, for Canadian coins use ICCS. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1352 Posts |
The key is understanding how each TPG grades your preferred series. In my case, the series is Victorian cents. My thought on looking at the ICCS grading of the Landon cents was that PCGS would grade the vast majority of them one numerical grade lower. Also, many of the ICCS reds, would be RB at PCGS. This also varies by series, as Wireman has suggested. I can say with some certainty that, over the past five years, PCGS has been much tougher than ICCS on mint state Victorian copper. Other series, not so much. http://www.victoriancent.com2011 & 2025 Fred Bowman Award Winner, 2020 J. Douglas Ferguson Award Winner, & 2022 Paul Fiocca Award Winner. Life Member of RCNA.
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
PCGS is definitely tougher on nickel dollars than ICCS. While ICCS likes clean fields, PCGS is hard on weak strikes and marks on the effigy...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Posted 03/16/2015 12:06 pm
