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Unknown Coin From Lot

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 1,815Next Topic  
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 Posted 04/14/2016  8:31 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Among a "junk" lot of relatively modern coins I bought today was this one. Just 15.6mm in diameter. Has rather a "Roman" look to it, but I'm not at all confident it's a bonafide ancient. I'm hoping somebody will recognize it on account of the distinctive hooked nose that's still apparent.





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Colligo ergo sum
Pillar of the Community
United States
2323 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2016  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jan Casimir Rex? Grand Duke of Lithuania?
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18302 Posts
 Posted 04/14/2016  9:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@lucky cuss, these are the coins that I am currently giving away of CCF:


http://goccf.com/t/257744
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Valued Member
Poland
59 Posts
 Posted 04/15/2016  04:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add InconsistentBlend to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like Arkie is right. We can see 'CAS REX' probably there's 'IOAN' on the left. It's the Lithuanian version (1660-66), the Polish had an eagle. Under the rider there's a monogram "HKPL" so there are three mints this could go out of - Brest(1665,1666,166_[last number missing]) Vilnius (1664,1665,1666,166_[last number missing]) or Malbork(1666). I think it's Vilnius mint 1666, because there are various images of the rider and in that year in that mint rider had no cape, had a shield and there were dots on both sides of the monogram (HKPL)
Valued Member
Lithuania
363 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2016  09:13 am  Show Profile   Check giedrius's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, no, this is the fake coin :) This is very common thing, each 10th solid coin of 1659-1666 was fake when the total mintage of copper John Casimir schillings was about 1 000 000 000......
Catalogue of Lithuanian half-groats 1495-1529 http://goccf.com/t/282866
Valued Member
Poland
311 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2016  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add geraltttt82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, this is not a fake coin (not counterfeit).

This is for sure 1666 Brzesc mint.

IOAN|CASREX|TLB
SOLIMAGDVCLIT1666
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 Posted 09/04/2016  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Oh, no, this is the fake coin


@giedrius, are you saying that this is a contemporary counterfeit? In other words, a coin that circulated in the late 1600s?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Valued Member
Lithuania
363 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2016  08:38 am  Show Profile   Check giedrius's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add giedrius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
geraltttt82
dspenciner
Yes, the legend is the same, but there are plenty of counterfeits of that time. Books said, that mintage of counterfeits was about 100 000 000 (one hundred million!!) in total mintage of original coins more than 1 milliard......this coin seemed to me as counterfeit due to strange bust of king.
I'm not so strong in boratynka coins, so maybe geraltttt82 is right.
Catalogue of Lithuanian half-groats 1495-1529 http://goccf.com/t/282866
Edited by giedrius
09/05/2016 08:56 am
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 Posted 05/06/2019  9:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad to see there was already a thread on this.

I know there are at least a handful of members who have these Poland copper solidus/schilling coins of the 1660s in their collections.

I recently saw one in very nice grade on eBay at a fair price (see the last page of this thread: http://goccf.com/t/332606 ). After comparing the details to examples in Numista, I bought the coin because of some unusual things in the legends. In hand, I saw more anomalies, and sent photos to WCN for an opinion. Mr. Marek Kondrat, the principal there, kindly sent me this response:
It looks like a Moldavian counterfeit of Jan Casimir Solidus. They were made in Suceava, now in Romania, but this city was known from many copies of billon coins. Most of these forgeries are unknown or not described, even in Mr Buzdugan book.
It's curious, but counterfeits of "boratynki" are selling better than genuine coins
.

So, there are a lot of these Jan Kazimierz solidus coins on the market, both in European auctions (often as large lots), and on eBay. The comment by @giedrius aligns well with the comment from Mr. Kondrat on contemporary counterfeits in the market. But Numista has images from the most respected auction houses in Poland (WCN, Niemczyk, etc.) with a CCF colleague as moderator.

I would say, compare what you are looking at (eBay, etc.) to examples in Numista, which are very well researched (you will find multiple variants [photographed for mmany date/mint combinations). If you see large differences, there may be a reason.

For me, I am keeping my counterfeit (the first I have acquired knowingly), as it is a contemporary one, and hence still has some historical value.




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