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What Does RPD, MPD And OD Mean? Part One:

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 Posted 09/23/2016  1:15 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
What does RPD, MPD and OD mean? Part one:

These are terms used on the location of the dates on the 18th and 19 century coins. The OD stood for Over-Date. During the first few years the mint created the dies from punches and each die was almost unique. So much so the dies to are actually numbered with Shelton numbers to Identify them toady. Because the dies were a big job to create, some years were over, and dies had not reached the end of its life. So some obverse dies were re-used another year. How did they do that? A new date digit was added on the die. Most of the time you could still see part of the old date still under the new digit that was added to the die that continued to be used another year or till the die was retired.
Here is an example of a Half Cent that the last digit was added:

Note the die was used in 1800, but now it is extended to the 1802 date. You can see both dates on the coin.
Here is an example of a quarter that was used another year:



A 1805 reused in 1806 to strike a few more quarters until the die was retired.

Here a 1814 bust half was reused in 1817 (three years later) to strike a few more coins:



Here is a 1818/7 bust half that had the 8 punched over the 7 on the previous date:


A 1819/8 bust half dollar that the 9 digit was added to a previous years date:


Eventually they stopped re-using the older die as an over date. So the OD means it was previous years date and one date digit changed to a different date digit. We can see both on the same coin. This may have happened on more examples than I posted. We note that the digit was the same size as the previous date and both dates are raised from the field because they were punched into the die. Some are weaker so they may have been partly removed from the die before it was the new digit was added.

But after 1909 this no longer happened. But what about the 1942/1 Mercury dimes and the 1943/2 nickels?



These are not over dates. Why? Because the date digits were not added to the die like the earlier dies. Each digit was punched and then a different process for making the dies happen later on. The die creating process was changed in 1909 to a new way of creating the dies. So on the Mercury dime and Jefferson nickel, the die creating process had changed since 1909. The four step process for creating the dies were set in motion. The Master hub, Master die, the Working hub and the Working dies. When you look at this chart, it tell you the progression.

Did you note the number of dies created in each step. One for the Master Hub. Two for the Master Die. The working hubs many were created and the working dies, thousands of these were created. So the date is added onto the Master Hub, transferred to the Master die and on down the line. So the three die examples I mentioned earlier didn't have dates changed on the die. They were passed on down the line in the progression. On the earlier dies the dies were created by hubs punched with parts of the design. Thus different looks were happening. Some had more stars. On some the locations of the bust we slightly different. some used different size/styles of devices. Eventually they devices were all put together on a hub, but the date digits were added to the dies. But on the coins I mentioned before, this procedure could not have happened. The die was created by two different year hubs. One for hubbing with the 1941 and one hubbing with 1942 hubs. This happened once at Philadelphia mint and once at the Denver mint in 1942 on the dimes. It must have been a mix up of the year hubs and dies they created. This also happened on the 1943/2 die on the nickel. One die was hubbed with a 1942 hub one time and with a 1943 hub a second time. Thus they show both dates. If you look closer on the nickel the year hubs were slightly different changing some other devices, but just slightly. But this is not an over date (OD) as the digits were not added individually or changed just the one digit like the earlier die were. They are doubled dies because they were hubbed from two different hubs. So it is not possible to have an OD after 1909 because the digits are not added to the dies. They were added on the master hubs.
End of part one.

Click Here for part two.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
09/23/2016 1:31 pm
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 Posted 09/23/2016  1:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dustin6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Coop. This is really Cool. I have saved the images. Really Great information
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 Posted 09/23/2016  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I put this thread on the wrong forum. Well it kind of works, but part two on the classic forum where it should be. I sent a not to move it over there. with part two.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 09/23/2016  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bpoc1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop,
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 Posted 09/23/2016  3:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finally in the right spot! Thanks guys!
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
09/23/2016 5:01 pm
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 Posted 09/23/2016  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Check oih82w8's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice job coop!
oih82w8 = "Oh I Hate To Wait"
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 Posted 09/23/2016  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aristarchus123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesomely helpful.
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 Posted 09/27/2016  08:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A fine thread here, Coop! Makes me want to OD on OD's ...
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 Posted 09/27/2016  2:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Small correction on the matter of the early overdates. With the exception of the 1806/5 quarter and half dollar NO overdated die was used before it was overdated. (There are no coins known struck from a die before it was overdated with the exception of those 1806/5 dies.) In every case they were an unused and unhardened die that was left over at the end of the year. The new digit was punched in and then the die was hardened and used. Hardening of dies was a very chancy thing and dies frequently failed and cracked during the hardening process. So if you had a usable hardened die left at the end of the year you weren't going to risk softening it, adding additional stresses by overdating it and then run the risk of rehardening it. You just used it as it already was. But with an unhardened, unused die you had nothing to lose so you overdated it and hardened it. Dies made close to the end of the year frequently were not hardened until just before use for that reason. If production dropped and the die wasn't needed it could be overdated and used the next year. Eventually they stopped punching in the last digit until right before hardening. That would eliminate the need for most overdating.
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 Posted 09/27/2016  7:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the information Condor101. Something I had not read yet, but makes total sense now.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 09/29/2016  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHuntingDrew to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For a second I thought this was coop asking a question about a coin being an error, until I realized that it's not....hahah.
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 Posted 10/17/2016  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks coop for the images and explanations.

Thanks Condor for sharing his knowledge again.

Two thumbs up to both of you!

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 Posted 10/17/2016  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well this is always a community effort. One helps share what they know on the subject to assist the information presented. Even the experts are still learning after years of study.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 10/18/2016  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Check CoinCollector2000's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CoinCollector2000 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful images. Thank you again for your work, Coop!
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 Posted 04/13/2017  12:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. I'm just amazed at the depth of knowledge here...

Thank you. Now I understand RPD, MPD, & OD. When I first read them on a different thread, they were a foreign language to me. Hence this thread...
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http://goccf.com/t/325884

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 Posted 01/15/2020  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a different over date I spotted on Nickels

Looks like this thread was not linked yet to CoopHome : RPD mean OD
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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