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Counterfeit (?) 1948, 1947ML, 1947 dollar coin lots  
 

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  01:27 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I don't know if I should start this in the counterfeit section if I'm not sure. The details on these coins seem really good, but overall everything seems "off".

Coins - weird appearance (like they were minted from mud), Voyageur shoulder appears "lumpy" and missing collar detail on some, bottom of canoe looks "off".
Overall - multiple key dates sold together. Low seller feedback. Seller's other items are expensive sunglasses, jewelry, clothes... and then a bunch of Canadian dollars?

1948 dollar 2 coins
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Canadi...AOSwqU5Z19xn
1948 dollar solo
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Canadi...AOSwuOxZ184O
1947 dollar "Pointed 7 w/Dot" (actually Maple Leaf) 3 coins
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-S-1-Po...AOSw3z5Z195b
1947 P7 quad HP 2 coins
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-S-1-Po...AOSwVaVZ1916

Are they really counterfeiting quadruple HPs now? Maybe I'm wrong and this is just weird photos and a very odd way of selling these.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1485 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  05:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coins look very odd and he has a feedback of "24". I'd say that they have 11 foot pole marks all over them. mikey, Mikey where are you when we need you.
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Canada
1464 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  05:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The seller says that the single 1948 will certify at MS63. Believe it or not.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1935 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  08:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very difficult to tell.

I'll stick my neck out and say they are all OK.
Valued Member
Canada
165 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add skelly423 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm with kbbpll. I can't articulate why, but I've seen enough silver dollars to know something doesn't look right about these coins. Add in the low feedback, the fact that multiple key dates are listed together, I wouldn't go anywhere near these coins.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3177 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fortunately for us..They do NOT ship to Canada..


The colour does look wrong on most of them.. The 47ML's for MS dollars seem to be missing sharpness in the maple leaf..

The 48's have blackness around at the rim and splotches elsewhere on the coins.

Some of the others have very bad colouring that I can't remember seeing on 48's that I've handled..

Some of them look like white metal..


Everything on these seems wrong at first glance...so let's see where this goes..



Pillar of the Community
Canada
981 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm going to say maybe they were housed in Whitman folders. Sometimes they toned nicer sometimes they toned ugly. I've seen similar ugly surfaces like that before. Usually environmental or improperly cleaned or polished then stored.

The pictures are garbage so thats not helping. I don't see anything that jumps out as far as details and devices that could lead me to believe that they are fake.
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Canada
3104 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  10:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JimmyD to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would have to agree with Alan & doubleeagle59. They seem genuine.
After doing side by side comparisons, I can see nothing
that jumps out to these being counterfeits. Checking the photos of some of the other
Silver Dollars this seller has sold in the past, none of the coins look much different from these.
They all have some toning and look dirty.
Poor photography or lighting can easily change a coins appearance.
If these are counterfeit, then we are in trouble for they show none of
the markers of past counterfeits and could easily pass of as genuine.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The bidders think they're real enough I guess. Maybe just one of those odd sellers. There are four _used_ Louis Vuitton phone cases in their sold items, all going for >$US100, as well as other Canadian dollars with the same appearance. I'll give them credit for lots of relatively clear photos. Thanks for the feedback.

Edit: It's funny to me that they know what a 1947 PT7 quad punched HP is, but they think the Maple Leaf is a "dot".
Edited by kbbpll
10/10/2017 10:59 am
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Canada
7368 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my opinion, the one on the left is fake (Lebanon issue?) and the one on the right is real. Note the left one is missing the serifs on the D (of DEI) and the slope of the forehead is not right.

"Research is what I am doing, when I don't know what I am doing" --Wernher von Braun

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  1:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The one on the left (presuming they're pictured in the same order) also seems to have an odd shoulder on the voyageur - very "blobby" and missing the point off the collar. Oh well, it's enough for me.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
641 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tripoli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me, the "wear' on obverse suggests a lot more "rubbing" than the date "wear" would suggest. In other words, the date detail is too precise relative to the rest of the coin's condition. just my .02 worth

there's a reason why this coin isn't certified.....seller only lives a few miles from PSA, I'm sure he's heard of them
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1332 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the poor pictures are causing concern. I do not see the markers for the Lebanese version.
Valued Member
Canada
120 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
COUNTERFEIT !! If you have seen one in person, actually held one and looked with a loupe, you know those ones are fake.
I bought 72 silver dollar size fakes for decorations many years ago when this whole counterfeit thing started. You can tell by the texture of the coins, usually showing porosity, and the dull grey colour with weird toning. Any coins that are VF-EF should show at least a tiny bit of residual lustre in the lettering, but the counterfeits are too dull for the grade. Most will be underweight. I tested some of mine and the one troy ounce coins weighed 19.9 grams instead of 31.1. The US silver dollars weighed 18.5 to 20.5 instead of 26.7.





I just got fished in for a 1914 Canadian 50 cent piece from eBay that is counterfeit and I'm trying to get a refund. Can't tell by the auction photos but as soon as I opened the package and say the texture- poof. This fake also has a large 4 with the wrong font .






As for the seller, if the coins are fake then maybe the expensive clothes, etc., may be knock-offs too. Import from China to California to avoid being a seller in China who you would probably suspect because of the counterfeit problem. From So-Cal, no problem, no suspicion.
Edited by TerryT
10/10/2017 5:21 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1935 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  5:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TerryT.....with all due respect, all your pictured coins are obvious Chinese-made fakes.

Anyone with experience in detecting fakes would agree.

But the OP's seller's coins are different.

They are much more difficult to tell as they do NOT have that counterfeit 'texture'.

I'm still having difficulty making my mind up on them.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1332 Posts
 Posted 10/10/2017  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
gee TerryT I have held one or two counterfeit coins in my day. Please explain what you see that would convince you that these are fake?
Again I see nothing wrong with the images that would make me say fake.
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