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1 Reichsthaler 1780 B - fake or authentic  
 

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Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  03:15 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello everyone!

Can anyone tell me if this coin is authentic or some kind of copy? It's just that I've never seen 1780 B 1 Reichsthaler before:

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United States
1599 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  06:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Appears genuine to me. Also has the typical weakness of strike and dull gray color that is often seen on these coins.
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United States
15574 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the bottom edge of both obverse and reverse you can see the casting sprue on the edges. I'm sure a photo of the edge would confirm this as a fake.
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United States
1599 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  08:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At the bottom edge of both obverse and reverse you can see the casting sprue on the edges. I'm sure a photo of the edge would confirm this as a fake.


Interesting, I thought it to be a line running along part of the edge design. Kind of like on this coin: https://www.ebth.com/items/7254484-...-thaler-coin

Zoom in on the third photo, right side of the edge.

Now I'm really curious to see the edge of the OP coin.
Valued Member
Germany
299 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  10:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potsdam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am sure that this coin is genuine. it is just a damaged Thaler, that shows some planchet errors (quite common for coins from that era) and what appears to be the casting sprue is indeed just part of the edge design ("Laubrand").
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United States
1672 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  11:00 am  Show Profile   Check jdmern's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Certainly appears like an authentic, damaged piece to me
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United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a general note, there were a decent amount of contemporary counterfeits of this era Prussian coinage.
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Russian Federation
12 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pratamishus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you very much everyone. You helped a lot.
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United States
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 Posted 12/05/2017  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Check jdmern's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add jdmern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Realeswatcher

Have you found there to many contemporary counterfeits of full Thalers? I have ended up with many fractional Thaler contemporary counterfeits from this era, but have not seen nearly as many Thalers?
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United States
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 Posted 12/05/2017  2:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jdmern, definitely many of the fractionals out there (1/3T, 1/6T...) but have also seen some full thalers as well. Of course looking for an example to show, I can't find one of this exact Friedrich II type, but I have seen them in varying alloys. ColonialJohn has a soft spot for these continental Europe CCs... either he or obviously Bob could add more on them.

The dull grey look, crude rims, and deep scratches on this piece make me want to say this could be one. Detail is fairly accurate, though... not certain.

Here are a few from the 1790s... and update, did find one (crude, though) of this type - a 1785:



Edited by realeswatcher
12/05/2017 2:25 pm
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United States
1599 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2017  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@realeswatcher That's interesting the difference of opinion based on dull grey appearance and crude rims. With silver from Prussia (and some other states) throughout a large swathe of the 18th century, I take both of these things as a sign of a genuine circulated piece.
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Belgium
352 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2018  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi pratamishus, can you show a photo of the edge? this is crucial for an answer to your question

the B between 17and 80 stands for Breslau, A on similar coins means the piece was struck in Berlin
Fredericus is the famous Frederick II 'The Great', king of Prussia from 1740-1786
Valued Member
Belgium
352 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2018  06:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1c5d7n5m to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the photo below is from a 17 A 81 type (Berlin)
the characteristic grooved edge is visible (to some extent) I do not see it on the piece of this thread

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3360 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2018  09:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lucky Cuss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd remark that the couple deep gouges at the rim and deep scratches on the surfaces suggest that when it was circulating it was regarded as suspicious enough that testing was done to see if it was silver over a base metal.
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Germany
299 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2018  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Potsdam to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can clearly see the edge structure (so-called 'Laubrand') on the 2nd image in the first post (bottom part of the coin). Still pretty sure that this one is genuine!
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United States
1306 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2018  7:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice example of a contemporary counterfeit of this design:
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