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How can I identify a 1972 LMC DDO?  
 

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 Posted 02/13/2018  1:28 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Trying to identify 1972 DDO correctly so far has me beating my head against a wall! Haha! Advice would be greatly appreciated.
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 Posted 02/13/2018  1:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Post some pics. please. No one would be able to help you without seeing some images!

BTW,just had a mystery 1972-P DDO myself, take a look at the link below. yours might be the same DD if it is a P mint.
http://goccf.com/t/308249

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 Posted 02/13/2018  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To identify these, it is best to know what areas to look for to see if they are a doubled die, master die doubled or machine doubled. So we will deal with this thread as to what to look for on a 1972 doubled die. First thing to look for on these is the date:

On the 1972 plain DDOs the date looks different than a regular coin on the '9' on the date. So check there first. Note on the above example the normal shape '9', the master die doubled '9'. Note the are pretty rounded on the arc of the that device. But not on the lower examples how the hub doubling altered most of the doubled dies? Ste strong the miss hubbing, the arc is altered. Note the arrows on these examples. You don't have to memorize them, but now you will know where to look first for the doubling on the date area. There are also examples of other things to look for on the date area. Some dies will have direction the spread. Some in the clock wise (CW) direction and some in the counter clockwise direction CCW).


On the 1972 doubled dies from Philadelphia, the 001-008 are all class one doubled dies. These will show a rotation of the hubbing either CW or CCW. So Being able to tell which one is which is a task, but They are pretty easy.
1,3,6 and 8 are CW. 2,4,5 and 7 are CCW. Some dies are easy to spot, other can be confusing:

Die number one:

This one has the strongest spread. This one is not confused with the others.


Die 002 and die 007 are often confused. So here is 002:


So here is a side by side of the #2 and #7 side by side:







Die 003:

Die numbers 003 and 008 are often confused, so I made a side by side of each area of the die to compare them with.






But after looking at the date areas, I noticed how the dates on #3 and #8 are different:


Die number 004:






Marker for 004:


Die 005:









Die 006:






Marker for 006:


Die 007: (Side by sides with 002 above)


Die 008: Side by sides with 003 above)


Master die doubling: what to look for.


coophome= 1972 DDO's








Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/13/2018 4:18 pm
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 Posted 02/13/2018  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Go for it Coop, maybe we can finally put this to rest and copy this thread from now on!
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord John Dalberg-Acton

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 Posted 02/13/2018  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another great work coop,

Thank you.
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 Posted 02/13/2018  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one needs to be a continuous repeat...Daily!
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord John Dalberg-Acton

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 Posted 02/13/2018  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tootallious to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well it doesn't get any clearer than that
Awesome Coop!
My goal in life is to live forever, so far so good!

If you don't want to regret your past, don't screw up in the future because the future, inevitably, becomes the past!
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 Posted 02/13/2018  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Check Errors and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errors and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a very good demonstration by coop and we need to use this everyday for questions about Doubled Dies. This will help new members to distinguish between Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration Doubling from a Doubled Die. Great work coop!
Errors And Varietys.
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 Posted 02/13/2018  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Check CoinMasters's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add CoinMasters to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice job coop! CoinVirgin, here's a link you might want to save. It's good for all cents, you just type in the date and mint and compare your coin to their picture.
https://coppercoins.com/advsearch.php
Beauty is in the eye of the holder
http://www.ebay.com/sch/Coins-Paper...rne0&_sop=10
To discern fact from opinion, is to question.
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 Posted 02/13/2018  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, but this post is just beginning.
Machine doubling
Machine doubling has been a plague for many years.


This after strike event alters the fresh struck devices. The devices are normal size from the strike, but given a kick with the die after the strike. this movement alters the strikes the devices in an un orderly fashion.
Sometimes slight above the base of the devices.



Sometimes midway up on the devices.


Sometimes the tops of the devices when the coins are leaving the chamber altering them.



Ejection doubling:

This is call machine doubling, but technically nothing is doubled. The devices are actually reduced in size. Along with the reduction, the devices are sometimes hit so hard the devices form a vertical wall with a flat step on one side or the other and sometimes on both sides of the devices.
















Some call them doubled struck or triple struck. The fact is, the coin is only struck once. The devices are formed then a bounce/sway/directional movement happens and the coin devices are no longer contoured.

On side or the other is altered/reduced/made flat/step like. Sometimes the devices are not always showing the same MD, but it will vary:




Flat field doubling on proof coins:






Some thrill over this, other get a chill about this. To me the coin is damaged. If it were a doubled die, it can also suffer from machine doubling alters those devices.


For a person who enjoys seeing the beauty of hub doubling, the MD rains on his parade. So how can you spot this? Sometimes color can give it away. When you look at natural formed, contoured devices. The top of that device is lighter in color, and tapers dark as the light goes down the device. But on MD devices, that area is flat. It is flashy. No longer is the contour there. It no longer looks light to dark On one side of the devices. While to the untrained eye, the reduction of the MD may not be noticed.
So side by sides will help us see that they are reduced in size.



Sometimes the devices give what is called, push doubling.



The devices are enlarged by the MD, but that just means there is more flattening of the devices. Many keep seeing the machine doubling and thinking they are die doubling. But eventually the right set of images will help them see the different. Sometimes we see negative images. They actually show the MD a lot stronger. Sometimes new ones will post images and because of the flattening of the devices, all we see is glare because of the flattening of the devices. The devices that are affected don't need more light to show what they are seeing. Often it looks like a picture of the sun and we can't see what they are wanting to show. so lets examine these to see what I'm talking about.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/13/2018 8:49 pm
Valued Member
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 Posted 02/13/2018  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so very much!
Now I see why I was going cross eyed & beating my head against the wall .
Kudos to you, So informative!
I appreciate you taking the time and effort to answer my question.
So thoroughly!
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 Posted 02/13/2018  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinvirgin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Knowledge & time are the greatest gifts someone can give to others.
Thank you for sharing yours with me.
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 Posted 02/13/2018  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You GO COOP! Amazing information!

This may be a stupid question, but is there a "Cherry Picker's Guide" To Lincoln Cents? I'd love to have this info available in book form.

Thanks again, Coop! You're the master!
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 Posted 02/13/2018  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Tootallious to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There should be a news flash that goes across everyone's screen that is logged on or when they log on to CCF with a link that leads them to this thread! Or, In the directory on the left side of the screen this information can be added so lurkers checking out the site can click on it and gain a little knowledge.(or anyone for that matter)

Just a thought
My goal in life is to live forever, so far so good!

If you don't want to regret your past, don't screw up in the future because the future, inevitably, becomes the past!
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 Posted 02/14/2018  03:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CinM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much, you are awesome coop! & I agree Tootallious... maybe a link right at the top under the thread posting link, titled "Double Die vs Machine Doubling" or something like that.
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 Posted 02/14/2018  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chase007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
coop, here is mine you may like to add

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