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Question: Value of Split Grade coin

 
 
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 Posted 03/13/2018  08:59 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add KHatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I'm still learning about coin collecting and I have a question about the value of split grade coins (from TPGs); for example, a VF-30 or EF-45 or AU-58.

Is there a rule of thumb for how these are valued relative to the Trends.

Is a VF-30 half way between VF and EF, or a third, etc?

How much does attractiveness play into it? I've seen AU-58s with luster that are nicer than many MS-60s
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 Posted 03/13/2018  09:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the CCF!

I don't understand what "split grade" means, as coins with a grade like VF-30 or XF-45 are normal. There's nothing unusual about that grade.

There are 70 grades on the Sheldon grading scale, but most of the time a round number is used for a grade. For example, VG-8, VF-35, MS-65. A coin graded VG-8(Very Good 8) has slightly more wear than a coin graded VG-10 but less wear than a G-6 (Good 6).

AU-58 and MS-60 are slightly different than other grades. A coin graded AU-58 may have better eye appeal than a coin graded MS-60 or MS-61, but it has wear, unlike the coin graded MS-60. Coins graded MS-60 or 61 will have many bag marks and scratches, but no wear. An AU-58 coin may have few marks, but have a lot of wear. All coins graded 60 and above have no wear, but they may have bag marks and scratches. Bag marks and scratches are not considered wear.

If you want, you can always post images of coins that you have questions about.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Edited by SilverDollar2017
03/13/2018 09:32 am
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Canada
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 Posted 03/13/2018  09:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add punman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If I want the approx. value of an EF45 I just take the average of a 40 and a 50.
For AU58, just take the average of AU55 and MS60. It'll be close enough.
It has nothing to do with eye appeal. Even within the same grade there are differences in eye appeal. Some 1946 silver dollars MS60 I like the look of. Some I don't. Same year, same grade.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  10:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is no worthy numerical percentage assignment that can predicate adding one grade to another and splitting them.

The jump in price based on the technical grade only depends on the number of available coins (market availability or census) compared to the availability of those specific grades.

If there are 1000 63, 300 64, and 25 65 there will probably be a doubling in price from 63 to 64, and a huge bump between 64 and 65.

Eye appeal is a completely separate consideration. Technical grade +/- Eye Appeal = Value.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A split grade coin is usually defined as a coin with a different grade for the obverse and reverse. Not seen very often nowadays as most will net grade them as an average of the two.For Canadian coins the net grade is heavily weighted in favour of the obverse, about 80%.

For the in between grades not listed in catalogues, such as VF30,because the distribution of different grades is not linear,the rule of thumb is VF20 price plus one third the difference of EF40 minus VF20

"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 03/13/2018  11:01 am  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just an example:
Let's say a given coin in a price guide gives you only these grade values. Every coin date and mint will produce a different graph of course.
G4 VG8 F12 VF20 XF40 AU50 AU55 and MS60
I would think you could mentally graph out with the given info and yes find a mid range value between grades. But it would be important to take eye appeal into the value as well.

On this graph...
An ugly AU58 may be valued closer to a AU55, where a real eye catcher would certainly come closer to an MS 60 value. The difference could be as much as $20 either way.

A G6 coin regardless of condition really wouldn't make much difference being an $11 coin. If it is ugly, it could even get less than a G4 coin or simply never sell. If it is attractive, it could easily fetch $12 all day long.
You could even ask or pay more and but a grade is a grade and the price is subjective.

I certainly agree, an MS60 coin in some cases can easily be less desirable than an AU58 coin and often is. I have chosen an AU coin over a beat up MS60 coin many times.
Eye appeal is certainly a price factor in my opinion.



Grades above MS60 often skyrocket leaving a lot of room for pricing between grades. One can always ask what they want or pay what they want. The value one puts on a coin and grade is for that particular coin itself.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  11:06 am  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A "Split Grade"
In the old days, we used to see split grades where the obverse or reverse was of a higher grade than the other. They always graded it referring to the obverse first.
You might see a coin in a holder that shows some grade like this F12/F15 which means the obverse grades F12 and the reverse grades F15. ANACS used to do that in the late 70's.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add moxking to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The ANACS split grade and net grade assignment was the single stupidest idea ever for coin grading. The number of coins with honestly split grades (more so on circulated) is relatively minor.

Additionally, how was it possible to determine the decrease in net grade on a 1 mm scratch and/or where that scratch was at. Ridiculous. They essentially tried to twist a technical grade to accommodate a non-numerical eye appeal value.

Today, it is generally agreed that technical grade and eye appeal, both negative and positive, are completely separate identifications.

Technical grade - circulation rub on PO-1 to AU-58, and after mintage harm (that does not force a details grade) on MS-60 to MS-70 - decide the technical grade which is OBJECTIVE. Good grading systems actually divide the relative influence of a mark depending on where the mark occurs for MS examples.

A scratch or ding or dent that is not so distracting as to force a non-numerical technical grade to become a details grade, DOESN'T change a circulated grade. A AU-58 with and without a minor ding, or several, does NOT change the AU-58.

It may certainly change the eye appeal negatively, and thus the value, but those marks on a circulated coin does nothing to change the numerical technical grade assignment.

Eye Appeal is SUBJECTIVE. To a certain extent it varies by personal appreciation. However, there is a fairly defined path where most collectors become more interested in coins with / without certain considerations. Many collectors begin by wanting only bright coins with no toning, only to become more interested in toned coins as their own self reliance and confidence in grading increases.

Most collectors learned that not all white (silver) coins have been cleaned, regardless of age, nor does a toned coin always indicate original surfaces.

The bottom line should always be Technical Grade +/- Eye Appeal = Value.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  12:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
When trying to sell these slit graded coins I find most people and dealers won't pay extra for a VF-30 you will most likely get the VF-20 price same as the other grades EF-40/EF-45, AU-55/Au-58.

I also agree if they have great eye appeal and no marks then you might get a better price as its a nicer coin.

I like the higher end of grade usually they have much nicer eye appeal, less marks, and less signs of wear on them.

I like your chart TNG
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 Posted 03/13/2018  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Check TNG's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TNG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
papeldog, I am glad you like the chart and appreciate that nod since it took me a while to make it up. LOL
On the left of most every CCF page, I am trying to remember to use CCF Partners links. They are highlighted in lime green!
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Canada
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 Posted 03/13/2018  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cacc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a tendency to place the middle grades at 30% of the value between the grades when doing the math quick in my head. It is not precise by any means, but it is more about how much you are willing to pay for a coin -- and for ease of use I tend to give that 30%.

Example:
Trend F12 - $100 (x)
Trend VF20 - $200 (y)
Calculated:
F15 - ($200-100)*30%+100 = $130 -- (y-x)*%+x

Something like VF20 to EF40 and you have an EF35 and it becomes a little more messy. In that case I will take another flat grade, VF30 in this case, as the half and then 30% on top of that for EF35.

Example:
Trend VF20 - $100 (x)
Trend EF40 - $200 (y)
Calculated:
VF30 - ($200-100)*50%+100 = $150 -- (y-x)*%+x
EF35 - ($200-150)*30%+150 = $165

For those really ugly ones like AU50 to AU55 to AU58 I tend to do a 30% between MS60 and AU50 for AU55 and 60% for AU58.

Example:
Trend AU50 - $100 (x)
Trend MS60 - $200 (y)
Calculated:
AU55 - ($200-100)*30%+100 = $130 -- (y-x)*%+x
AU58 - ($200-100)*60%+100 = $160

These numbers really don't mean too much as it is whatever you are willing to pay and whatever the seller is willing to sell for, but it is what I use for my buying habits. It is also just quick to calculate instead of wasting too much time getting into a more exact formula. What really messes me up though is what happens if you have a number higher than the grade listed in the trends. You have an MS63 and the highest trend is MS60...any amount you add is just a complete guess as to the value.
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 Posted 03/13/2018  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KHatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, this has been super helpful.

I didn't realize that "split grades", as in different sides, was a thing. Thanks for letting me know.

I meant "middle grades" between those listed in trends or a catalog. Thanks for the 30% tip.

I was only asking because I have a couple middle grades, especially AU-55, AU-58 graded coins.

Including these three that I wanted to value:

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/2793588-019/58/

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/2731285-006/53/ (photo isn't great)

https://www.NGCcoin.com/certlookup/2793107-013/45/


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 Posted 03/13/2018  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add purelywasted to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you are looking at third party graders ( TPG) it can get a bit more complicated.

For example, ICCS will net grade, which means a cleaned MS coin, might be net graded to an AU. PCGS can lower a grade if the coin lacks eye appeal.

To make it even more fun, their standards can drift up/down over time, so some TPG graded coins can be more/less attractive depending on which year it was graded. The old rule, buy the coin, not the holder still applies to TPG's.

Good luck with your collecting and welcome to CCF
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