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1858 Full Vine Cents And PCGS

 
 
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Pillar of the Community

United States
780 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  6:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Has anyone tried to get PCGS to recognize and grade the 1858 full vine, 16 stems (died RA1 through RA3) and 1858 full vine, 15 stems varieties (die RA4)? If so, what was your result? They have been listed in front section of Charlton since 2012. Thinking of sending some in.
Edited by bosox
04/24/2018 6:49 pm
Valued Member
United States
132 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2018  9:24 pm  Show Profile   Check 1960NYGiants's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 1960NYGiants to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rob - in reading the pop report it looks like they only recognize the medal strike.

Gene
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1390 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  12:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't tried the 1858 full vine...

I did get the first 1882H Triple Hub, 1881H Micro D, 1896 Far 6 in the PCGS population report, but someone had already managed to get PCGS to recognize those varieties and assign a new PCGS number - even if the population report was at 0 when I sent mine in and got them recognized by PCGS.

Rob, if you were willing to show me HOW to ask PCGS to recognize a new variety I would certainly be willing to try and absorb any costs related to trying...

Edited by canadian-varieties
04/25/2018 12:15 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
780 Posts
 Posted 04/25/2018  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the offer. I can do it, but was just wondering if someone had already done the work.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1390 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2018  02:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure anyone, save a couple of extremely well connected people, would know even where to begin, who to approach at PCGS, etc...
Pillar of the Community
United States
2386 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2018  04:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Being a District honcho for the RCNA helps, let alone the personal friendships.
Pillar of the Community
United States
780 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2018  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PCGS now recognizes two 1858 cent full vine varieties; Full Vine, 16 Stems and Full Vine, 15 Stems. Both are in Charlton. The latter has a full vine and the broken stem at Leaf #9 (not to be confused with other reverse dies having a broken vine and a broken or faded stem at Leaf 9). The grades on my order posted today. For those having the book, for the seven Full Vine, 16 Stems in my order; two of these were struck by Dies OE1/RA1, two by OF1/RA2, and three by OA2/RA3. The Full Vine, 15 Stems are both OA1/RA4 (the only known die pair for these).

Edited by bosox
06/08/2018 5:37 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2386 Posts
 Posted 06/08/2018  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2386 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  07:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not sure if we've got a bunch of people with bad eyes around here or not, but take a look at Bosox's post of the list from PCGS. Do you know how hard it is to even have ONE VF full-vine 1858 in just VF condition ... let along a laundry list of NINE 15 or 16 stem colonial Vicky's? I have looked at 10's and 10's of thousands of early Vickies and, at one time, had over 1000 1858's and 59's (though only about 30 58's) and found just 4 16 stem and 1 15 stem in my 30+ years of looking until I gave up and none of them even approached the grades that Rob has. If I was wearing a hat now on my semi-balding head, I would tip it twice. Just the accumulation of this latest list of full-vine '58 examples equals the entire remainder of his PCGS Registry set importance .. which is topped by no one else in the world. Congrats again, Rob, for getting PCGS to finally recognize an important piece(s) of Canadian numismatic history.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1363 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okie very well put and it is a list that not many will reach if anyone else does.

Congratulations Rob a top 10 set of 1858 full vines
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1390 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  11:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add canadian-varieties to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congratulations! Another great step in the evolution of Large Cent Collecting...

I have a AU58 NGC Full Vine that will now be on its way to PCGS, and a couple of VF35s...

They are difficult enough, although maybe not AS difficult as okie says




Edited by canadian-varieties
06/09/2018 4:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
780 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a Full Vine, 16 Stems in a PCGS MS-63RB holder (not currently attributed for the variety) that I will send to them in a few months to correctly re-holder. There is a 64RB out there someplace as well. I do not know of any Full Vine, 15 Stems in high grades.

The beauty of the 16 stem coins is that they represent the coin The Royal Mint was trying to make, before the reverse punch first broke at the stem to Leaf 9. There are only three known dies with the intact reverse design. The three dies were used to mint a handful of specimen coins, then used up minting circulated coins. The three dies obviously broke early in their service, as circulating full vine, 16 stem coins are scarce.

The specimens are rare. I invite you to attend the RCNA Educational Symposium in August to learn about these.

The Full Vine, 15 stems occurred on only one die, before the punch again broke, this time at the vine near Leaf 13. I consider these coins very scarce, bordering upon rare.
Edited by bosox
06/09/2018 5:11 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2386 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
C-V ... I never really looked for full-vine 1858's before 2010, because I didn't know about them. I already had 10-15 1858's to quench my Vicky search, so I didn't really look very hard after 2010 either .. only to try to find examples for friends that collected the die varieties. Regardless what you say, the 16 stem are scarce and the 15 stem even more so. Any 1858 really falls outside my collecting and $$ realm .. I stick with all the other Vicky's that I can/did accumulate over the last 20-30 years
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1425 Posts
 Posted 06/09/2018  7:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I can only dream of ever looking at 1 in person or holding 1 in my hand.
Bosox you have a museum collection of them-----unbeleavable

Here's my suggestion
To balance the world you need to send 1 to NZ and I would look after it for you

Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Valued Member
Canada
284 Posts
 Posted 06/11/2018  7:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add KHatt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice work getting the variety recognized ... and nice collection/horde ... um ... and chance you'd sell one?
Pillar of the Community
United States
780 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2018  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I plan on hanging on to my 1858 cents for a while, since I eventually plan on updating the book..
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