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Another Fake Silver 1921 Morgan Dollar (made in China) on eBay  
 

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Valued Member
Austria
429 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  07:46 am Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Here is another case of an inexperienced seller offering a fake coin:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNITED-STA...253700317782




The seller probably does not know.
Checkout my eBay Store: www.CoinWorldTV.com /// Quality World Coins and Medals Auction listings, starting as low as 99 Cents and Without Reserve! ///
Edited by coinworldtv
06/27/2018 07:46 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1598 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That coin is VAM 16A. Picture in link is 16B, but it's just 16A with more advanced die cracks.

Detail here: http://www.vamworld.com/1921-P%20VAM-16A and http://www.vamworld.com/1921-P%20VAM-16B

Photo from vamworld.com

Valued Member
Austria
429 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:15 am  Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Numismat

This coin is a replica of those VAM varieties.

The big photographs just make you feel comfortable about it.

You should be more up to date with the forgeries, which circulate nowadays.

As said in my previous post, the Chinese manufacturing has improved a lot.

IT IS A FAKE !

Checkout my eBay Store: www.CoinWorldTV.com /// Quality World Coins and Medals Auction listings, starting as low as 99 Cents and Without Reserve! ///
Edited by coinworldtv
06/27/2018 09:18 am
Valued Member
Austria
429 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:23 am  Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a very good replication process, probably a pressure cast.

Similar to the AUTO DOLLAR, which has been posted in this forum recently.
Checkout my eBay Store: www.CoinWorldTV.com /// Quality World Coins and Medals Auction listings, starting as low as 99 Cents and Without Reserve! ///
Edited by coinworldtv
06/27/2018 09:24 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1598 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it would be a better discussion if moderators moved this to the US coins forum where the more knowledgeable people for this type are. I won't comment on authenticity since I'm not as familiar with US coins as others, but wanted to point out that it matches a known variety.
Edited by Numismat
06/27/2018 09:30 am
Valued Member
Austria
429 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:30 am  Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way, owning this coin in the US might be illegal, unless you mark it with the unpopular "COPY" countermark.

Checkout my eBay Store: www.CoinWorldTV.com /// Quality World Coins and Medals Auction listings, starting as low as 99 Cents and Without Reserve! ///
Valued Member
Austria
429 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:42 am  Show Profile   Check coinworldtv's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinworldtv to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Again, here the low-budget buyer re-seller is being targeted.

The seller got this coin probably for little more than the melt price, he sells it for $10 more, the collector thinks, that it is worth another $10-$20 more.

These coins are being massively produced and injected slowly by thousands into the market.

It destroys the hobby as such coins tend to lower prices and spread dissatisfaction among the collectors, who often stop collecting after suffering financial damages.
Checkout my eBay Store: www.CoinWorldTV.com /// Quality World Coins and Medals Auction listings, starting as low as 99 Cents and Without Reserve! ///
Pillar of the Community
United States
1598 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On a completely unrelated note, I did a google images search for keywords: "pressure cast" coin

The results were a handful of ancients from other sites and then all the others being more modern coins from coincommunity threads. That seems really odd does it not?

Edited by Numismat
06/27/2018 12:55 pm
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United States
23514 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The only way this coin is a fake is if the one pictured is not the one shipped.

I see no evidence whatsoever - and fully know how difficult it is for any counterfeit manufacturing effort to so exactly duplicate known die cracks and gouges - making me think it isn't an original coin. Contemplate, for a moment, the actual physical dimensions of a die crack (hint, prominent ones are around 0.03", 0.08mm from my measurements), and how you might possibly duplicate it perfectly on a copied die.

By the way, that "inexperienced" seller has sixteen thousand Feedbacks.
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 Posted 06/27/2018  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Check coinlover1899's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add coinlover1899 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
By the way, that "inexperienced" seller has sixteen thousand Feedbacks.


I noticed that too.
My name is Devin, and I have been collecting now for around 2 years. I love early American coppers. I set up at coin shows and sell on eBay with my dad (I own most of the coins we sell, and he owns most of the currency), and most of all... I have fun!
Visit my website:
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19328 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  12:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You should be more up to date with the forgeries, which circulate nowadays.


Maybe you should be less "up to date" because that coin looks fine to me.
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239 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cableguy815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hardly an expert on these but if this is a forgery, and it may very well be, then it's an incredible looking one. I wouldn't mind owning such an excellent forgery (as long as it is really a forgery) for studying purposes and as a novelty.

You mentioned this was a pressure cast but it looks like strike to me. I've never seen a Chinese cast have that level of accurate detail.

I just noticed that the seller is Sloveniacoins. I know this seller very well and have purchased several thousand dollars worth of world material from him. He is top notch in my book.

As a side note, I wouldn't necessarily use the number of feedback to gage how knowledgeable a seller is (though it is a great indicator) as I have received forgeries from very highly rated sellers who claimed to "not know" the coin was a fake due to them not dealing with coins from the particular country.
Nothing better than a fresh World Crown arriving in the mail after a long and tiring day.
Edited by cableguy815
06/27/2018 12:52 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
4217 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverDollar2017 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Instead of claiming this coin is a fake with no proof, please explain to us why you think itís fake, and how to detect such fakes. Iíve been collecting Morgan dollars for a while, and if this is not legitimate, it must be an expert counterfeit. I highly doubt itís fake.
Collector of all classic US coinage.

How to identify cleaned coins: http://goccf.com/t/319679
Edited by SilverDollar2017
06/27/2018 1:11 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1196 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jerseyben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You have got to be kidding me with this post. Unbelievable...
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2018  7:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jmwilson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As the image loaded ... I noticed die cracks around the outer top side of the lettering on the obverse. My first thoughts were ... "maybe this isn't a fake or they are getting really good"

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 Posted 06/27/2018  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That would really be cool if this has the same weight tolerance like the real one.

If this was pressure cast, then it requires the forge die to duplicate all the imperfection as in die cracks, thickness of metal, level of denticles and have the same reeding.

The cost to produce and material in silver wouldn't be beneficial to the counterfeiters, unless its a rare date, or they have discover a method to duplicate the weight and sound. I would have give a ring test for common date Morgans, since its not in MS grade.

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