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Anyone ever seen? 1961-D cent obverse. Error? What? How?  
 

 
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 Posted 07/12/2018  1:54 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add da Swampster to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I wasn't gonna post any photos until I get a new 'scope to replace this plastic-lense horror, but I am totally stumped over this -- error? I seriously first put in some hours researching and failing to find anything prior to laying it out here and now; this isn't simply a jump-ball posting call.

The marks are incuse to level-at-best, not raised like a die clash can be -- which I suppose would make this a counter-'something' strike. You can see a 'line' across both top and bottom where the mars are sharply cut off. There's a partial, whatever this is, just beneath, showing a couple of what would be in-between and you can see another, much lighter, nearly parallel of whatever this is across the date. The outer lines in that one don't look straight, but they are. Same width too.

I realize it's impossible to see all the tiny scratches within each mar from this photo, along with not being able to see other subtilities either. Just hoping someone is familiar with whatever caused this. The imprint reminds me of a chain drive that's thrown its belt.

Swamp

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 Posted 07/12/2018  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Check Errors and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errors and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do see what you're talking about, but I can't tell what it is.
Errors and Varietys.
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the date? Maybe a LAM?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add da Swampster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Me either, E&V.. Befuddled with this 'un for sure..!

John1 -- Wish it was that simple.. It's just the lightest of impressions..
You can actually see the outline of that one much better in the photo than IRL..

Swamp
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Halo1st to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glare makes it a bit challenging gauging depth. I'm thinking peeled lamination or struck through a long narrow thin piece of scrap.

Leaning towards lamination as the image also seems to show signs of another retained lamination or similar running through the date area. Thanks, Doug.
Second opinions are always recommended. Rookies thoughts!
Backup data often or good luck with the recovery process..... SME advice!
Edited by Halo1st
07/12/2018 2:52 pm
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What is going on with that tracking from the forehead down to the lower shoulder?
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Errors and Varietys's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Errors and Varietys to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The thing by his head is definitely a Lamination error. Nice find and congratulations!
Errors and Varietys.
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 Posted 07/12/2018  2:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably need better photos,less glare,color inversion maybe.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 07/12/2018  3:25 pm  Show Profile   Check Crazyb0's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Crazyb0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamp, could it be this?
http://www.error-ref.com/die-subsidence/

I don't see any cracks but it could fit the bill...in reverse tho. Where the die itself may bulge instead of sink in? I'm not seeing a lamination, there really aren't that many on newer coppers after 1965, the process of alloy making had become much better then a kettle and wood fire from LWC days!

Or try this one, looks more promising:

http://www.error-ref.com/reciprocal...oncavo_dies/


Edited by Crazyb0
07/12/2018 3:30 pm
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 Posted 07/12/2018  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If the marks are slight incuse, are we sure that it isn't just creative PMD? @swamp, can you tell us if there are flat spots on the rev?
"It certainly strikes the beholder with astonishment, to perceive what vast difficulties can be overcome by the pigmy arms of little mortal man, aided by science and directed by superior skill." --Henry Tudor (the lawyer not the king)
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 Posted 07/12/2018  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add da Swampster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Glare makes it a bit challenging gauging depth...or struck through a long narrow thin piece of scrap...
Doug -- I shot it hot on purpose because I thought it showed better depth separation.. Unfortunately that didn't translate well to the 'date' thing.. That does look like a lamination in the photo, but be assured it is of the lightest of strikes.. No peeling there or anywhere on the coin..

If it was just the one row, or even that and what's immediately beneath, I'm pretty sure I would have called it a strike through right off the bat.. However, when you include what's over the date as well, that makes a strike-through-only a real stretch, for me at least.. A strike through and separate-but-same event might be workable.. Or a series of up-stream events ultimately resulting in some sort of counter-struck die-cap? might be workable too, although a realll stretch.. I simply don't know what this is, or what caused it..
Quote:
What is going on with that tracking from the forehead down to the lower shoulder?
Coinfrog -- That is the question..
Quote:
Probably need better photos,less glare,color inversion maybe.
John1
John1 -- You got it..! As I said in my opening sentence... It's my bad, really.. This should have waited until I have a way for better MUCH better photos.. There's just too much "looks like" in this photo.. I thought I'd explained away the "what they aren't's" well enough, but guess not..

So thanks, y'all.. I'll just re-post this when I have better photo-taking equipment..

Swamp

EDIT: Crazyb0 -- Not a subsidence issue.. Appreciate the not a lamination too.. I think it really wants to be some sort of a strike through.. I just can't explain the totality of it all..

Spence -- Nothing on the back except some usual suspects early stage greasing starting to set up below the bottom step center and between & above top of 5th & 6th columns..

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 Posted 07/12/2018  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stoneman227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both are lamination issues.
The perpendicular striations across the long runs are the telltale.
I have one that I have never photographed and would have to dig for , that is similar. About the only way tell its a lamination issue is the striations in the area are toned differently than the rest of the coin
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 Posted 07/12/2018  5:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe Mike needs to weigh in on this one?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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