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Can You Share Your Experiences With CAC Submissions?

 
 
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312 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2018  8:06 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I came across a statement in an eBay listing I found too incredible to be true. The lister was a coin dealer selling a low mintage CAC approved MS64 coin. The coin was every bit as nice as you would expect from the grade The lister stated that in its experience CAC rejected 94.6% of submissions.
This floored me. After reading the CAC website some time ago, I understood that CAC approval meant the coin was either representative of the assigned grade or strong for the assigned grade. I therefore viewed CAC approval mainly as protection against grade inflation. This seemed borne out by the price premiums I have observed ranging from $50-$200 per coin for CAC coins. One would think that a higher premium would be charged if CAC coins were so uncommon.
So does CAC really annoint only the top 5%? If so, I will give CAC approval a lot more weight than I have previously. Similarly, I will shelve as futile, my current plans to someday drive 30 miles with some of my nicer coins to submit to the only CAC dealer in my city of 5 million souls.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12771 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2018  9:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's very likely an overstatement but yes they very likely sticker well less than half of what is submitted overall. If you can get a 60-70 percent success rate you have a very good eye.

A lot depends what it is too. MS 63 common commems, common date common grade mercs/morgans sticker at high rates but then you look at things like gem gold and can see a miserable rate.

There very easily can be areas where under 10 percent of what's submitted gets stickers.

If there is anything they don't like about it it won't get a sticker even if the grade is fine.

The guy in charge of it is an elite expert on US coins especially with gold.
Fire A.J. Preller
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United States
1249 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2018  10:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add chesterb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My first submission a couple years ago was great with 80% approval. I started to get a big head and thought I was God's gift to numismatics. My second submission a year later had what I thought were a few "no brainers." I only had one out of seven sticker in that submission which was a real hit to my ego. Nowadays I don't even bother submitting because they seem to be really strict. I've seen some real head scratchers get a sticker while other wonderful looking coins aren't getting CAC'd. I'm waiting until they seem to be a bit more predictable.
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United States
3479 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2018  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MikeF to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I only submitted one coin and it beaned. No way I will have that success rate in the future especially with Seated dollars.

Only 1,744 Seated dollars have CAC approval. They are very stingy when it comes to this series.
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United States
312 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2018  01:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like we have TPG grades edging up and CAC approval rates going down. Maybe a statistician could find whether there is any correlation. It is baffling.
If CAC is growing stricter, then the date of CAC approval might be important in the opposite way it can be important with TPG graded coins. Generally a seller of a PCGS coin in an old green or early blue holder makes note of it to imply the coin was graded before grade inflation began occurring. In other words, the earlier the better. But if CAC is growing stricter over time, then the later the better, and an earlier CAC approval would be less meaningful than a later one. But I don't think there is any way to tell because the beans aren't numbered. (I do recognize that any CAC approval is a beneficial confirmation of grade).So, it's just food for thought.
In my own experience, I am the very proud owner of two very similar coins: an 1837 PCGS ms63 half dime and an 1837 PCGS ms63 dime, both Liberty Seated without stars. The half dime has a cud protruding from Lady Liberty's head that looks almost like a tiny pair of devil horns. It also has a CAC sticker. The dime does not, and I have no reason to believe it was ever submitted.
The two coins are identically toned steel gray. Neither has any distracting marks. The half dime has a little more luster, the dime a little better strike. Both show some evidence of early cleaning in the form of light parallel scratches, the half dime more so than the dime. My point is that to me at least, neither coin stands out from the other. Given that the half dime was CACd I believe the dime is equally deserving. But it sounds like I would be lucky if the dime beaned.
Oh, well, I won't bother trying to guess which of my coins might CAC. If I see a coin I like with a bean, I will view that as a positive, but non-determinative factor.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12771 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2018  01:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add basebal21 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Seems like we have TPG grades edging up and CAC approval rates going down.


Has very little to do with TPG grades edging up. They are grading harder now than they did many years ago.

You could do a dissertation on this and grade ranges that are all accurate for the coin ect

The cliff notes version is that CAC is a great learning tool. They don't even charge collectors for coins that do not sticker and for 15 bucks you can get an opinion of one of the best numismatic people in history for US coins.

Apply to CAC yourself, don't have a dealer do it. There is a lot that can be learned very cheaply. You don't have to always agree, but when you don't the key is to figure out why and not just say they're wrong I know more



Fire A.J. Preller
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United States
360 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2018  09:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EarlyTurban to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I recently submitted the following coins to CAC with the following results:

1808 Half Eagle PCGS AU53 / CAC
1840-C Half Eagle PCGS XF-45 / no CAC
1844-C Half Eagle PCGS VF-30 / no CAC
1846-C Half Eagle PCGS AU-58 / CAC
1847-C Half Eagle PCGS AU-53 / CAC
1848-C Half Eagle PCGS XF-45 / CAC
1854-C Half Eagle NGC AU-53 / no CAC









Certainly not batting 1000, but getting over 50% with early or branch mint gold is pretty darn good results. While I thought all of them had a good shot at sticking, the ones that CAC'd are very nice, problem-free coins for their respective grades. I suspect the 1840-C didn't CAC due to some mint-made planchet roughness on the obverse. The 1844-C, while having very nice color and patina, has a few marks on the reverse that may have held it back. The 1854-C is a loverly, original coin that has a cool die crack that runs from the reverse rim above the "S" in "STATES" through the eagle, and contributed to the weak strike - simply a tad over-graded in the NGC AU-53 holder. If more appropriately graded, (say XF-45) it would easily CAC.

ET
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United States
2431 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2018  10:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Slider23 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CAC has not changed their sticker standards. The reason it appears that CAC is stricter because a lot of the high end for the grade coins over $300 have already been sent to CAC. Finding quality coins that are a slam dunk to get a CAC sticker is very difficult because you are buying from a picked over pool of coins. If someone has a good eye for what CAC likes, they can sticker 70% + on their submissions. If you took 10 coins at radmon off eBay and submitted to CAC, I would expect the sticker rate to be less than 5%. I had a conversation with JA at CAC about two years about this topic. JA said, "it was getting harder to find coins worthy of a sticker.
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United States
7721 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2018  8:36 pm  Show Profile   Check oih82w8's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Win some, lose some. Overall after six separate submissions, I am at about 60% pass rate.
oih82w8 = "Oh I Hate To Wait"
"I tell her coins keep me off the streets and out of the bars." Moe145
"WOO-SAA...WOo-SAa...Woo-Saa" (calm down)
"An individual who vacillates when there is need of action will find themself beyond the hope of future success."

My Virtual 7070 https://www.PCGS.com/SetRegistry/ty...album/142105
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